The private messages to Roosh that got me permabanned from RVF
Posted by xsplat on August 1, 2013
Following the MMMS posts, Roosh sent me this PM:
Roosh Wrote:Dear xsplat,
You have received a warning that has resulted in a temporary posting suspension. You will be allowed to post once the suspension is complete, but your warning level will remain for the next 90 days. If it increases to 100% upon additional warnings, you will be permanently banned.
Reason for suspension: Hyper aggressive, meltdown watch
Duration: 7 day(s)
To which I replied:
Would it be possible to publicly clarify the moderation policy? As I’m not able to figure out how that works, or what guidelines I’ve broken.
The recent series of posts in that thread did get some likes and 4 new rep points.
I don’t see that I flamed anyone. Every thought expressed I believe, and would want to state regardless of emotion or not. The are rational and coherent. No one was singled out with insults.
Is it just that you don’t like the ideas that I express? They don’t fit in with your views? Is that how the moderation policy works?
Some sort of guidelines would help, otherwise honestly I have no idea how to avoid another ban.
Roosh Wrote:If everyone on the forum adopted your argumentative, offensive style, the forum would be chaos. Tone it down. This is a community and so more diplomacy would be in order. If you’re not sure whether something would lead to a ban or not, you shouldn’t do it.
So is the guideline not to be argumentative? Not to be offensive?
Is it left deliberately vague in order to stifle expressions of certain thoughts? If that was the unwanted effect, would you consider altering your policy, or at least making it clear enough that people would be able to know if they were violating it without a wait and see?
The idea of “If you’re not sure whether something would lead to a ban or not, you shouldn’t do it.” is not a clear guideline for me. I would never have thought anything that I posted would lead to any sort of ban.
And now I don’t know what it is I need to censor. Things that people disagree with?
I’ve received a number of private messages from others that mention their attitude towards the moderation. Would that be something that you’d be interested in seeing?
Also, those posts got me 6 rep points, so many have said that they really appreciated my thoughts. If I were to stifle my style, I simply would not be able to communicate. There would not have been any rep points, and that would mean no value added to that discussion.
Is that what your moderation policy is aiming for? I hope not, but honestly don’t know. In any case, that would be the consequence, intended or not.
Writing comes with style and tone, sometimes. I did not flame anyone, and was rational and reasonable. If I had to never show any emotion I’d never type.
I see you didn’t respond to my last pm which asked “If you are interested I’ll share with you other peoples thoughts to me of how they now self censor their very ideas on your forum, due to moderation policy.”
Should I take the silence to mean that you are not interested in what the 11 other people had to say about the moderation policy, and how for some it makes them self censor not only the tone, but what the ideas they talk about?
Many years back I used to post on the thaivisa.com forum. They have a moderation policy there that it is not allowed to talk about the moderation policy. Do you have the same policy? Would I be allowed to initiate a thread about the moderation policy?
Also, I understand that Pitt got a 1 day ban for what he wrote in that thread. I was just reading over his posts there, and can’t figure that one out.
Was it because his ideas disagreed with yours?
So are we to interpret “If you’re not sure whether something would lead to a ban or not, you shouldn’t do it.” to mean, “If you are unsure if the moderators disagree with your viewpoint or not, you shouldn’t post”?
If that is not the case, then what is the case? Do you want us to have guidelines to follow, or do you want us to tip toe around trying to spare the moderators discomfort? I can see that disagreement is tolerated, even emotional disagreement, especially when the disagreement is with outsiders, such as Lindsey West. And disagreement is tolerated if the moderators agree with the argument. But even very tactful disagreement with the ideas of the moderators, such as Pitt showed – is that what will lead to a ban?
Do you want us to not know, such that if we are unable to read the moderators mind then we will simply not post at all? Wouldn’t that lead to either an echo chamber or a forum as uncontentious as Pinterest?
no response, however;
Comments to me in Private Message from RVF members:
guy #1) I tend to self-moderate pretty heavily sometimes and even then I worry that I’ll get caught up in a discussion that rubs someone the wrong way and get banned.
guy #2) I’m unimpressed with the way so many people are getting banned lately. Okay, some of them are dicks and deserve it, but many are quality posters with over a thousand posts to their names. It seems we’re not allowed to disagree with ‘the Management’ any more – plain old censorship. Same with locking the thread – so heavy handed.
I just keep quiet on some contentious issues because the value of the forum as a resource to me is greater than my need to explain my views to strangers who mostly don’t care what I think.
guy #3) The mods here are far too strict in my opinion.
guy #4) Banned? That’s ridiculous we were having a good chat. I had never thought of personal growth vs. hypocrisy so clearly, it was interesting.
guy #5) Sucks about your 7 day ban. I don’t think you deserved it at all.
guy #6) I got a 1 day ban too, I dont even think i disrespected anyone but oh well.
guy #7) i dont like how this place is becoming a bit of dictatorship where top posters can say whatever they think and everyone has to agree with them.
guy #8) Sorry to hear about the suspension, this forum can be brutal. I tend to self-moderate pretty heavily sometimes and even then I worry that I’ll get caught up in a discussion that rubs someone the wrong way and get banned.
guy #9) they banned you for demolishing their group think, basically.
guy #10) I didn’t see you saying anything that was offensive(but I didn’t read every post.)
guy #11) I think there is too much banning going on here. It is scary the number of people who have being banned altogether. Indeed – I hold back myself – since I can’t be bothered dealing with bans and so forth. .. I agreed with you – but I don’t have the patience for those back and forward debates. I usually just reinterpret my opponent’s views into something I can agree with. Congratulate them on giving me something to think about. And then move on…