Daysofgame said:
An active conversation with men with real experience on truly advanced topics would move all of us fwd… deepen the practical renaissance of sex/relationship mastery.
You can’t get better at tennis if you only play against newbs. So ya, more people joining in from a first person current lived perspective at more advanced levels brings us all to better form.
You’re perfect to have in the conversation about advanced relationship skills because three things:
- your breadth of study
- your willingness to tease out the wheat from the chaffe in what anyone says, plus your ability to translate between different frames of reference and metaphors and ways of thinking
- your Dale Carnegy high end skills of diplomacy.
An intern once asked me to teach him about Chi-Kung. I gave him an overview and a few lessons, and he went off on his own from there. In my understanding, there is no ultimate true method; you grow the phantom limbs that you choose to pay attention on growing. The framework that we grow on is very very loose. I don’t teach much of the traditional things, such as red on the outside white on the inside left side channel beside the central channel beside the white on the outside red on the inside right side channel. That channel is not a discovery of something real, it’s a creation of something that becomes real.
So anyway, within a brief period of some months, he was having very strong Chi-Kung and Qi-kong sex experiences. Very different from my own.
So if we get a community of guys talking about advanced stuff, we aren’t going to be agreeing on where is the right-hand channel and what color it is. But some underlying patterns might still be discernible.
The way that someones heart-chakra energy opens will be experienced uniquely for everyone. But love is an underlying pattern we will be able to notice. And we can consider the different frames of reference and viewpoints on love as real different worlds, seeing reality. The fun task isn’t to see the same reality, it’s to see the breadth and profundity. More info at once, and better integration of the massively parallel insights and embodied wisdom that are not surface.
My best guess (in part, as I’m doing this when I am “blowing girls minds”) is you are “bringing more and more energy through the girl.” This is “fucking her open to god.”
To quote myself: “You have to feel a lot in order for the girl to feel a lot”
I like the way you put it too. We all know that the more sexually responsive a girl is, the more fun she is to be with. Funny how guys never talk about that about themselves.
Children from a young age learn to sex differentiate. Part of it is innate; boys stop joining in on playing with dolls with the girls and get more interested in the Tonka Trucks. Part of it is just noticing what each group is doing. So I don’t know how much it’s cultural sex differentiation that keeps guys from talking out loud that they will be WAY way way better in bed if they FEEL more and are more sexually responsive.
Or maybe it’s because most guys are struggling to feel less, because it’s too easy to orgasm.
That’s where chi-kung comes in, of course. It increases no only your libido, but your control. You can hold MUCH more energy. It can be so intense as to be indistinguishable from pain.
I remember going to the dentist during a period when my sex was usually extremely intense. The dentist pain became the same as the sex pain for me – indistinguishable from pleasure.
That’s just one manifestation of high energy though. There are many other ways. Again, why chi-kung helps; to find many voices, to find many embodiments. And why formless meditation helps. To not need any dreams or embodiments at all, but to just let aliveness be simple. To appreciate the appreciation, and let it broaden in a non-local way.
Daysofgame said:
I am waking up to this. As I learn more, and the “matrix” slows down, I can change the course of events in real time… so “shaping her” is becoming more common for me.
What happens for me seems to be the reverse. I might look back at what I just said and note with some surprise how appropriate it is.
Actually, no, you’re right. There is awareness in that split second improv moment, and we are aware of what micro-split second decisions we are making as we riff.
This is very similar to improv on a musical instrument. I wrote a post about that, that referenced a study of jazz improvizationalists that showed that the usual analytical decision making process gets shut down during improv. I think we get more right brained, and the flow moment puts us both more into the moment yet at once less in “decision making mode”
So maybe it’s the analytical part of my mind that sometimes looks back and is surprised at what I’ve just said.
Because there is no time for the analytical part to make such choices. The other way to think is massively-multi-parallel. You can’t be analytical and fast on your feet like that. There is no time for it.
Lately I’ve been talking a lot about improv and moving into right brained artistic ways of being, as well as muscle memory from reference experiences.
I think we also need to talk about feeling love and lusty appreciation as habit. I’ve been chewing on that idea these last few days, waiting to be ready to write about it.
Together they add up to all at once a mixture of:
- being into the girl
- showing it
- leaning back instead of leaning in, as Riv would remind
- constantly joking and using her micro-shit tests as fun starting points for agree-and amplify, or role play or changing the subject in a funny way, or simply agreeing, or ignoring, or banter and so on. Her shit tests can be more than defused and disarmed, they become fun and nourishing play. Another ritual of devotion, a ritual of improv that makes her laugh.
- filling the room with lusty paternal love that lights her up as if it’s opium in the air.
- a constant feeling of sexual addiction and lust; constant sexual flirting
- a feeling of long standing ease and closeness, as if you could have a conversation with your lips touching. You don’t have to move away from the fridge as she’s reaching in, she’ll appreciate you just being obstinately in the way as she sidles up right against you, as if you share the same body, you are so comfortable and familiar.
So ya, time slows down and you direct her attention and who she is, constantly, but also it’s a matter of habit, but habit of improv.
Always fresh, always new, yet always of a very familiar theme.
Being into each other and celebration.
Such a type of relationship is highly archetypal, by the way. If you act like this on the first date, the woman will fall straight into it, in mutual role play. She will feel as if the two of you have been in a great relationship for a long time.
It’s a kind of secret society. That even virgins can join. It’s just archetypal and easy. First date sex, and first date openness and coupling.
D said:
And I created someone who could be loved. The other part was recognizing the same potential in the people around me.
That’s a big deal.
I used to live in a monastery with Pema Chodron as the Abbess and my meditation instructor. She’s famous for teaching about Maitri, or self acceptance and love.
It’s a rather huge foundational part of all Buddhist practice, without which one can’t deepen and grow it into compassion.
Or the simple common sense notion that you can’t love others until you love yourself.
And no girl will love you for long if you don’t love her. Falling in love is something people prefer to do together.
So ya, keeping that warm sweet fire of self love in your heart is foundational to being loved.
To be as literal as possible… you’re making the experience of being with you, so intense, that she is “on drugs” when she feels that, it “changes her,” and she expects to be in a devotional state around you… and she has evidence… as you continue to use her as a vessel to concentrate “intense feelings.”
Yes, and not just intense feelings.
You feel good. You feel good around her. You like, love, lust, and appreciate her.
So you celebrate the energy-baby that is the love that the two of you create. You both feel that love as a real thing. It’s in the room, and you both deeply respect that baby. You both nurture it, constantly.
That baby needs sex, comfort, delicious food, quiet time apart, and on and on. It needs strong passionate sex, time with her listening to you play your muscial instrument or watching you be above average at the gym, or whatever it is that feeds the baby.
She’s going to be constantly saying “I love you”, because you are constantly, quietly, feeling love.
Her mirror neurons will pick up on your very subtle body language that you are unconscious of. All you have to do is be into her, (and 1000 other things that are already natural habit) and she’ll associate all her good feelings with you, and be constantly addicted.
She’ll miss you while doing the groceries, or if you step out to the gym. Even if you live together 24/7, she’ll not only never tire of you, but might burn with love so strong that it physically hurts her in the chest.
My girl dreams of me every single night. Unfortunately I’m often cheating in her dreams, or about to. That’s my karma, I suppose. That must be in my body language. But it’s also just because of the love-existential-angst.
Patrice talks about “karate school.” Saying she “learns your moves” and eventually you have to let her go and start over. This is “betatization” sort of, but staying one step ahead of her “chipping away,” and when she is too good… push her out.
And you are saying almost what Deida says. He says, in the end… women always win.
This hasn’t been my experience. However girls will leave a guy, eventually, who won’t commit in the way she wants. Marriage with monogamy is a common line in the sand that a woman is waiting for.
Blackdragon and others contest this point, and say that many women will hang around for years as fuck buddies.
That’s apples and oranges.
Women who are deeply in love with you and already pair bonded have expectations – biological expectations. It’s called having a baby.
“Devotion… Fuck you! Devotion… Fuck you!” This is something that I believe even a “Top Guy” will have to deal with. I noticed that as I climb higher in life, her expectations of me climb as well. Briffault’s law doesn’t even begin to do justice on just how audacious female entitlement is. When you are a drunk captain, she will low level nag on a constant basis, but when you are making serious gains on a consistent basis, the slightest mistake will bring out a tantrum of worried insecurity based on her fear of you veering off course.
Been there, done that. Never again. I’ve had healthy win-win relationships in my recent and medium term past, and am in one currently, that look nothing like that.
With J she started to get cunty consistently, and even though we were living together I soft nexted her. No way in hell am I ever going to live that way again. I stopped eating for 3 days, and for the next two months without fail ate only every second day, which was on gym days. I upped my game, and demanded better treatment. That turned things around, and she never dared be cunty again. When she slides a bit, I let her know, and she fears my wrath. My wrath can be very gentle now; she listens and corrects.
But I could not have done that with a personality disordered passive aggressive or low self-awareness girl.
Not all girls are like that, and either it’s your fault, or hers, or both.
You don’t have to live like that.
Oh, and of course I still usually only eat every second day, and still maintain the gym regimen, and do everything else I can think of to remain extremely sexually competitive and her best option.
Both people have to work fucking hard to maintain strong passionate loving healthy win-win on the same team relationship, feeding the mutual baby of love.
And it’s up to you to make sure she works fucking hard. If you are working fucking hard at it, and she won’t or can’t, you have to move on. For her sake and yours. That’s what I think. Nobody can win with the personality disordered, and if you are walking on eggshells, while at the same time properly handling your shit and her shit tests, it’s on her.
S. Reynard said:
Can you please direct me to a post or link that gives a good intro to your Q-gong practices/techniques. Also, this is info I would gladly pay for if you had an e-book. Thanks in advance, I love your perspective for it is very unique.
xsplat said:
I learned in person in classes. Do you live in a city that offers that?
We all know that a text with a girl gives less info than a phone call with a girl gives less info than a face to face conversation.
I don’t think you can learn massage at a high level from a video – you need to also get top level massages as part of the process. And give them to teachers for feedback.
Chi-kung isn’t massage, and you can learn a lot of it just on your own, so maybe videos would be enough. I don’t know, but I’d still recommend looking into regular classes or visiting teachers.
Also, know that there are almost as many styles of chi-kung as there are teachers. Most will teach a metaphysics of real chi. Believing in that metaphysics helps to feel the chi, however in my description of it I mostly don’t use a metaphysics of “real” chi as a ghostly force.
At the recommendation of a friend I’ve been looking into and practicing the “Ice Man”‘s Wimm Hoff’s breathing excercises. That got me interested again in Tummo Yoga, so I’ve been looking online for some teachers who have a similar teaching to the one I was taught ages ago. But it’s a secret teaching, so I haven’t been able to find it. Even today, most of the students of teachers who admonish to keep the teachings secret do so.
But none of the chi-kung styles that I learned had any such proscriptions. If I ever search around for such videos, I’ll post the ones that I like here.
I know many readers practice Taoist and Qi related practices. Hopefully some will speak up.
S. Reynard said:
Thanks for taking the time to address my comment. I did Golden Shield Qi gong for awhile but the teacher’s were not my style. I am now headed toward trial and error based on your recommendations. I will find something that works. Once again: THANKS!
Renfrew said:
Damo Mitchell’s Lotus Neigong has also been highly recommended to me for chi qong. I’ve not signed up yet, but seems there are “chapters” all over the world.
Wim Hof Method is something I’ve been experimenting with the last couple of months. While I like the “high on your own supply” sensations that come with the breath holding, I’m surprised at how uncomfortable I find the hyperventilating part that precedes that. There are some physical, or physiological, sensations that come along with the breathing hard — tingling and the like — that are very hard to “just be with” at least for me.
I’ve found the cold showers to be a great mental challenge and boost. They feel like a hardening-up exercise… an antidote to going soft in life. Plus, it’s interesting to see how you really do develop a tolerance to them, such that a certain level of cold quickly starts to feel less cold than it did.
So there’s an angle of kinaesthetic exploration to Wim Hof stuff. In the showers, and in the breathing. Tuning into to your body in a way you hadn’t done before. Sensing stuff. Connecting body and mind in some way that feels novel.
And Wim talks about this, or tries to.
Recently I attended one of his public events. He’s a raving lunatic, hardly worth listening to. But that’s normal right? You always have to separate the artist (the person) from the merits of his work. Especially when they’re trying to describe the ineffable. He’s shockingly incoherent, though — like post-modernist painter levels of poopytalk.
And the group ice bath, where everyone goes into the drink for 2 minutes, was exhilarating. I’d never done an ice bath before. A shock to the system for sure. But I noticed afterward that I was cockier than usual (in a good way, mostly).
I think if I do this devotedly for six months total (another four on top of where I’ve gotten to) it’ll have a nicely transformative effect. Then I can decide what of it I want to keep, and how I want to make use of it.
Wilbur said:
Good Qigong:
Zhineng Qigong has a very good reputation and is also thought online I think (same system as Chilel qigong and Wisdom healing qigong).
Primordial Qigong thought by Michael Winn is an unusually powerful and deep form and easy to learn through DVD. Winn also has a bunch of practices relevant to building sexual energy (his sexual vitality qigong series) and learning energy sex (his healing love program):
He also has a free ebook on the inner smile.
The Kundalini Awakening Process (KAP) in Glen Morris tradition is very good and powerful and their secret smile technique may be one of the best inner game tools and energy sex tools there is. Morris Path Notes book is also a great read about Kundalini and related stuff. KAPs level 2 has very good teachings on energy sex (dual cultivation)
Springforestqigong is highly regarded and can be learnt through DVD.
Standing meditation is very useful. It gives a deeper embodiment than perhaps anything else. It gives a ton of Chi Kung energy. And some of the poses build tremendous masculine energy. Horse stance both in very deep and higher stances produce a ton of testosterone. the San Ti Chi posture also create loads of alpha male energy.
A meditation system that is good for both reaching high levels of enlightenment within a relatively short time frame (not THAT many years) and reaching unusually deep levels of concentration (shamatha) is Culadasas system. Read his book the Mind Illuminated and check out the reddit community connected to his book.
For deeper sexual partner work Bruce Frantzis Taoist Sexual Meditation book is by far the best I have come across. Better than all tantra books I have read combined. Though Diana Richardsons tantra books are a nice addition for a basic neo tantric take on things.
S. Reynard said:
Wilbur: Thanks for your thoughtful comment. I will follow up on some of your recommendations
Pingback: How meditation and chi-kung make you sexy | Random Xpat Rantings
daysofgame.com said:
> you grow the phantom limbs that you choose to pay attention on growing
This ^ is a great line. Wonderful way to talk about reaching for something you can imagine but not define.
> To quote myself: “You have to feel a lot in order for the girl to feel a lot”
I am working on the basis for a post on this “opening the heart shakras” concept, and taking some notes.
Deida says, “She wants to go deeper. If you are less deep than her, why would she follow you?” That is a good way to put it.
> We all know that the more sexually responsive a girl is, the more fun she is to be with. Funny how guys never talk about that about themselves.
Yeah, right? This IS the problem.
When a man comes to a “wide spectrum” girl intent on consumption, she will rejected that. It’s gluttony, not orchestration.
I think men cannot see this in themselves, so they never get close to her wanting to surrender to him.
> keeps guys from talking out loud that they will be WAY way way better in bed if they FEEL more and are more sexually responsive.
They mostly have no leadership. I have been afraid I will chase guys away by even bringing it up… Too “purple pill,” when it is nothing of the sort. This is top level game. Higher level sex. Even at a physical level.
But… On Twitter, when I chase a “deeper” issue I am into in a public way, when I am vulnerable to start the thread, interesting men/minds pile on.
We can be that leadership… And channel in the traditions of men that came before us.
> maybe it’s because most guys are struggling to feel less, because it’s too easy to orgasm.
Hmmm. Interesting.
Holding back an orgasm is a real incentive… I wonder if this leads to a “closing” in other areas (sensitivity to her, depth, sexual nuance).
I think “open heartedness” is hard for guys as they are locked in the “men are stone” tradition (which has it’s merits). The “zero fucks given” (for ex) is another terrible cultural tagline for men.
I give a lot of fucks.
> jazz improvizationalists that showed that the usual analytical decision making process gets shut down during improv
Back to trying to “open girls” during sex… If I try, I can get their openness to “flicker.” But the trying is a distraction.
First the guy will have to open (assuming she is not waiting for him to “get it”), coax her toward opening (a type of dominance, BTW), then she will, then it “happens.” Depth. “Spontaneous depth.”
> Her shit tests can be more than defused and disarmed, they become fun and nourishing play
This is mastery. “Wizard Game.”
This is how Yohami seems to me. I have been there… Not often enough.
It is interesting that when she likes you… You run great game. We know the reverse is true, but it works both ways.
> as she sidles up right against you, as if you share the same body,
My favorite lovers and I sleep like this… As if we were one piece. Miss Bangs really stepped up with me in January… So close, she is “burned into me” now.
I have led her well. But she has a huge capacity for open-hearted depth. I am learning for her… Even as I leas her.
> If you act like this on the first date, the woman will fall straight into it, in mutual role play. She will feel as if the two of you have been in a great relationship for a long time.
I believe you. I am not there yet.
> So you celebrate the energy-baby that is the love that the two of you create. You both feel that love as a real thing. It’s in the room, and you both deeply respect that baby. You both nurture it, constantly
This is teaching me.
> She’ll miss you while doing the groceries, or if you step out to the gym. Even if you live together 24/7, she’ll not only never tire of you, but might burn with love so strong that it physically hurts her in the chest.
I can’t even see this yet. I don’t think I am strong enough to relax into this state.
I had a 6 day date and a 5 day date (different girls) in Jan. The latter was much easier, as I like her so much more. But both took a ton of energy. I was happy to collapse afterwards.
> This hasn’t been my experience
I believe you. But I can’t feel what you’re talking about yet.
> when you are making serious gains on a consistent basis, the slightest mistake will bring out a tantrum of worried insecurity based on her fear of you veering off course.
I am still here ^.
I had a shoulder surgery (left me a bit weak) and then a high fever that made me very emotional (I was happy, but “intoxicatedly” feverish), I think both episodes cost me in big ways with my lover at the time. Shook her faith. Shocks me as we had so much. But I think this is the nature of women… For the level of man I am.
> That turned things around, and she never dared be cunty again. When she slides a bit, I let her know, and she fears my wrath.
This is helpful. It’s both positive and negative feedback? That works for me. I imagined you were only love and leadership.
> And it’s up to you to make sure she works fucking hard. If you are working fucking hard at it, and she won’t or can’t, you have to move on. For her sake and yours.
Yeah. This is sort of where I was going in my “good women are made” post.
I am not good at making girls work. Even hearing this is a nice prompt.
But I can tell them “how to think” and “how to feel.” As I am dealing with them in 1-2 day bursts, this is enough… Or so says a man at my level.
Extraordinary post. I learned several things. Thank you.
xsplat said:
Ya, this is how guys usually think the internal experience feels like.
But if you want to not come, it’s not about closing down or constricting, it’s about opening up to wider and more intense experience.
I’ll try to write more.
But it’s the complete opposite of how most guys imagine. It’s opening to MORE intensity. NOT closing down from intensity.
But to feel more you have to open more “channels” and de-localize the sensations throughout more of the body. Of course body centered meditations help a lot because you’ll already be familiar with where else you can hold the energy. You can dance it around all over the place and make a concerto out of energies, within you, and also within her.
Renfrew said:
Ever so slightly off topic, and yet right on topic, too…
Yesterday I listened to a very recent (Jan 2019) convo between Tom Torero, Troy Francis, and the now married Paul Janka.
I noticed that Torero and Francis (active players) never asked Janka (legendary retired player) any questions like “What are the wonderful things about married life?” or “Tell us about your wife” or “Do you think there’s a value in commitment to another person that you don’t get in short-term interactions?”
At times I had the sense they were less interested in Janka’s true experience of the decision to live monogamously (and the consequences thereof), and more interested in voicing (and reinforcing) their faith in their own respective mating strategies.
At any rate, because of where their heads were, I felt they missed the chance to have a real deep and revealing conversation about relationship styles, favouring instead a rather superficial and conventional discussion of “monogamy versus player.”
I don’t think any of the three men learned anything in the conversation, or were changed or influenced at all by each other. They enjoyed themselves, but there wasn’t any authentic intersubjectivity.
The marriage convo is here:
Which led me to watch this very long video of Janka, filmed when he was just at the start of the relationship with the girl he went on to marry:
I had not listened to Janka in years, and I’d completely forgotten how verbally intelligent that man is.
xsplat said:
Great comment, and I like that Paul Janka video; I really vibe with his style.
I wish I could teach 1/5th as well as he can.
His story of playing with a girls pussy within a few minutes of meeting her, with her friends friend sitting beside her and not knowing was familiar. Because I did that too. Later that night the girl came home with me, despite the violent protestations of her cock blocking lesbian best friend. Then the girl moved in on the first date and we lived together for 1 year.
I wonder how long it took him to TEACH like that. It’s one thing to do, but teaching is a very different skill set.
Alchemist said:
>I wonder how long it took him to TEACH like that. It’s one thing to do, but teaching is a very different skill set.
I teach a lot in my work, but I don’t think a whole lot about the experience in the way we are discussing – of opening and inviting someone else to open, of creating the trust and surrender needed for for learning to occur. (Or for orgasm and release to occur.)
When I taught skiing and snowboarding decades ago I was very aware of the difference between teaching kids and teaching adults. Both need to perform the exact same motions and tasks to learn the skills, but kids easily find joy in doing so and waste no time with discussion, analysis, and kvetching. So they often learn much more quickly even though their balance stinks compared to adults. At the time I had much more difficulty with adults because singing a song, telling a joke, and playing games didn’t seem to open them up to discovery the way it did for kids. So I used long explanations and sales pitches to try to manipulate them into performing the simple tasks required to accomplish what they were paying for. Sort of like a bad pick up artist with tons of lines and no vibe. It did work but it was painful.
Since then I have taught dance some. And I try to judge my performance by how little time I spend talking vs how much time I spend with the music on and my students actually moving. So I am more aware of the qualitative difference, but only in the most crude terms.
Owen Cook actually talks about the process of opening oneself and opening his audience at his seminars as being the same process that happens between himself and a girl. His style is of course way more up and down and tending toward neurotic and intense than Janka’s. Owen’s audience may need the intensity to wake up though.
Tom said:
Your relationship game involves a level of dominance that is rather extreme. It looks awesome in a way but its a level of dominance I am not drawn to and would need a lot of training to pull of. I like being leading and dominant with women in a more moderate and more conventional way. Probably similar to many guys that are fairly good PUAs that also have a good handle on relationships or natural fairly alpha men that can handle their relationships well and lead and hold good frame but still don’t go to the lengths you do.
I would love to see you try to describe a good model for ways to be that kind of more moderately dominant man in relationship. Its more attainable for most of us.
xsplat said:
My current girlfriend and I get along very well, and it would be difficult to notice any type of power imbalance. She doesn’t need a great deal of overt displays of dominance; not an unusual amount. I think we look fairly normal, in public. No dog collar at least.
But I did make her change her outfit four times before we went out last night. He he. Ok, I guess that’s something.
I listen to her too. She’s a good girl, and we listen to each other.
This morning I had to wake her up to make my breakfast. She’d had a late night ,and her body was lazy and groggy and full of inertia.
Dominance doesn’t mean “HEY – DO WHAT I SAY!!!1”
I was like a cheerleader. Fun and funny. “There are birds and sunshine downstairs! Happy Day! ” As I roughly manhandled and massaged her all over her little sensuous body.
I made it happy and fair to commandeer her mind. A fun place to go to. Cajoling. Not demanding.
It’s always her decision to be led by me.
She could be led by anyone else in a heartbeat; she’s sane and young and attractive. We’re with each other because we always try to make each other happy; very deliberately and very consciously.