I’ve been very critical against some manosphere memes and those who spread them. The reason is because I believe that these memes can directly cause tremendous personal and social harm, by stunting personalities and lives.
It’s my belief that deep down humans are wired to seek out pair bonding and love.
It’s my belief that much relationship advice directly prevents succeeding at these immutable and innate hard wired deep human drives.
The pre 2012 writings of Heartiste directly and openly admitted to the tremendous and inescapable value of love – and how love is the greatest possible pleasure. Later he de-emphasised this, then seemed to completely forget it, then seemed to completely negate it. Eventually he kept harping over and over on a clear falsehood – that confidence is the root of all real attraction. To him all atractive traits can be reduced to and replaced by confidence. Pure bullshit that will directly prevent you from finding and maintaining loving relationships.
Rollo says that it’s impossible to be in a loving long term relationship. You can either pump and dump, or be a doormat who is not respected.
Roosh is just schizoid, and all but insane. He’s deeply anti intimacy, and yet somehow thinks that intimacy could be possible, if only he could find a woman good enough. Nothing is about him – it’s all about culture and women’s beliefs and habits. He bans and prevents comments outside of his incredibly narrow and harsh belief system.
I’ve talked in greater detail many times about my disagreements with the philosophies and teachings of these dangerous and harmful men. Please don’t underestimate their power over your mind, and their ability to personally harm you and your life.
I need to keep getting back to that, over and over, because some habits of mind directly will block your ability to give and receive love.
In order to give and receive love, you need to:
1) Believe that this is possible, attainable, and good, for you personally
2) Believe that you can realistically meet and date and spend a great deal of time with a woman worth of loving
It will be quick and obvious to see that many popular relationship experts can’t accept the most basic fundamental premises required for love, which is REQUIRED for human happiness.
So they are really trying to fuck up your life.
You might notice the next time that you are into a girl, that you are wary of leaning in too far into emotionality, because you’ve been heart broken in the past, and you don’t want to fall into a vulnerable position again.
It’s a wise instinct. I have to admit it; love and heartbreak are two sides of the same coin. Usually one leads to the other.
But it’s still worth it.
Which leads us to a 3rd and 4th requirement to be able to give and receive love;
3) Being able to maintain strong interpersonal boundaries (so as not to lose one’s self)
4) Being able to constantly repair ones boundaries and well being, through lifestyle and meditative and body centered meditative disciplines. You can afford cuts scrapes and bruises if you can heal. The greater regenerative capacity you grow, the greater your ability to risk injury. Love requires a strong heart – and a strong heart is both vulnerable-and-sensitive-and-open, and well defined with clear boundaries of acceptable situations to be in and behavious to accept. And a strong heart heals strongly – it’s our biological and emotional fact of life; life is about constant regeneration. So is love.
Character and wisdom demonstrably come directly through sorrow, and this has been statistically studied. This blog is too low traffic for it to be worth my time to dig up links, but I’ve posted on it before. I know, there are over 900 blog posts here, so if you want to follow up on that thought, it’s still a matter of your own interest and Google-fu. But we all share that same intuition; who doesn’t prefer the company of wizened battle hardened happy folks?
Rough ideas that I may edit:
- Love is somewhat dependent on physical lust – in both directions. You need to both be proud of how she looks, and be into her type physically, and get off just from seeing her, smelling her, contemplating her, and also you need to have a self respect and eroticism. You need to be proud of how you look, and get off on your own sexual response, and know that she is proud of your physicality and eroticism and how she can get you sexually high.
- A very quick way to mutually share love is through role play. We have intrinsic evolved responses that go back millions of years into the history of how our emotional systems work. These responses are archetypal. The most basic, fundamental, old, powerful, archetypal emotions relating to love all spring from our most basic, oldest, emotional responses of all – those of parents to children, and of children to parents.
- You can very quickly fall into workable habits of mutual love, simply by role playing Daddy Daughter. Girls fall into it near immediately – usually with just the barest of hints that you are into that. Very occasionally some girls will be reticent about that game, but it’s too deep to really avoid – the intellect evolved much later, and the emotions are stronger and more base – it really doesn’t matter if the intellect disapproves at all. The intellect might disapprove of a certain man or woman, but you’ll still get wet or hard. Daddy Daughter goes too deep to be affected by approval or disapproval.
- Daddy Daughter is also a good archetype to use in general, outside of the bed. You’ll allow yourself more patience, and personal authority. She’ll allow herself more abandon and respect.
- A major issue that I don’t think has been addressed at all, on any relationship forum, is the incredible importance of relationship practice. People are not innately good at being in relationships. They fail often not just because women suck. Sure, compatibility is important, but relationship is a skill – a difficult skill. At least as difficult as piano. It takes practice practice practice and you learn more and more and more. You can’t learn it from a book, you can’t learn it all at once, and you can’t know what it is yet that you need to learn. No one can tell you. You only learn piano in steps – only by practice. Relationship skill is a skill.
- Daygame skills barely overlap with relationship skills. You can be the top pickup artist in the world, and still be completely inept at giving and receiving love with an attractive young woman, and maintaining passion day after day for the longer term. If you are interested in relationships, you need to very clearly see and know this. Getting a girl into bed is barely related to keeping her in passionate obsessive devoted love with you.
Feeling love is similar to feeling joy. I assume most of us tend to avoid feeling happy, at some deep fundamental level. We carry around with us like a childs comfort blanket this constant burden of feeling alienated and wanting.
Even in the middle of the most rapturous sex, this bad habit of mind can intrude, making it impossible to really feel loved, and to truly give over to that joyous celebration of mutual lusty devotion.
The easiest way around these neurotic mind habits are through the meditative disciplines. Perhaps augmented by very rare psychedellic drug use. Body centered meditations, and especially chi-kung get you into being being, and out of thinking about and watching being. With body centered being, you can be love – just embody and feel and control and use your emotions, just like you sometimes do when you are totally into some song and riffing along with it in voice. You join in with that song, and are at your full creative potential in your flow moment, embodying your emotions and body all together without need for separation.
You need to respect your own psychological need to do this, and respect that this is natural and default for women; they love to be in love. They want and need it, just like naive teenagers. You don’t need an excessive self regard to feel loveable. People just like to love; it’s perfectly natural, and you can be a good enough receptacle for that attention. Especially with care and practice.
* Being with someone is about re-enforcing habits. Habits of your own behaviour and moods and attitudes, and habits of your companion.
I suppose a definition of being charismatic is exactly that; the ability to re-enforce in others a habitual sense of joy for being around you.
I hear people often complain that they could not imagine being happy spending a lot of time with a woman, especially living with one full time, and working from home.
I think it’s not only a matter of personality style. I think it’s also a matter of relationship habits. And of course sexual habits.
I’ve written quite a bit about sex, and it’s my belief that lust is a huge help to maintain interest, and therefore the habits that increase lust, such as not having frequent orgasms if these tire you or lead you to disinterest, and doing chi-kung and lifestyle improvements that increase libido. Who hasn’t heard the joke of losing all feelings of love and interst after having a male orgasm? Male orgasm, because some women can actually get chatty and needy after coming. The reverse is also true; keeping your libido increases your interest in the woman. You’ll learn to prefer having that interest, and so will she. It’s better for the both of you if you are interested in each other.
Along with regular passionate sex, there are many other big and small ways that spending a great deal of time with a companion can become easy and fun.
You need to be able to enforce your quiet time boundaries; usually people simply don’t talk to each other. This is difficult for women, at first. But they get used to it, and it’s completely going to be your job to make that so. You will get annoyed if there is unwanted chatter all the time. Eventually the both of you will learn to appreciate silent company, as if you can feel each other in the space, and like that feeling. A feeling you both feed – a feeling of contentment and humor and appreciation. Maybe you had that with your Grandma as a young child. Being together is not equal to being burdened; we can learn the joys of shared silence. And be fed by the shared silence, and feed into it.
——————
Just as it takes you time to learn, it will take your woman. You are both flawed characters, but at your best you’ll be trying to make each other happy – lately I’ve had girlfriends who do this as habit. Before I’ve had girlfriends who would often do the reverse, and deliberately cause angst. It’s quite common for women to be troublesome deliberately, and difficult to avoid, but it is avoidable. It’s not their fault entirely. Eighty percent is up to your own actions, 20 percent is up to your mate choices; and of course mate choices means being able to attract as well as being able to choose.
Some women are great to go sexually quickly, but others can take one or even two or even more years to slowly grow into their ability.
It’s also quite a bit your own responsibility that this happens. Again, Daddy Daughter is a decent mental framework. Younger guys obviously can’t be in a position to mentor, and so I recommend young guys spend time with older women, who are very appreciative mentors. Some older women do very well in the role of mentor, and have more to teach than you can know; elders always do. Later you can switch up the roles, with younger and younger and younger mates.
Strangely enough, you’ll learn a lot about being an authentic masculine authority in young women’s lives by as a young man dating much older women who mentor you. The dynamic is different in ways, and similar in others. The regalness and mutual respect from different positions remains.
———-
If I drink, I’ll eventually ask you to tell me a story. When I’m out on the town with my 21 year old little girl, sometimes it gets to the point that I ask her to tell me a story. Inevitably she recounts our first date.
It was really that good. I’ve documented it here. It’s etched in her mind, and fresh. Our love is at least as strong as fresh young infatuation. Love can last longer than the average 6 months to max 2 years. In a minority of people the measured blood hormones associated with passionate love remain indefinately.
She still tells me that she loves me many times a day, just like she did from day one. She came this morning many times, and I was quite full of bonded attachment and love for that small child like woman.
It’s a skill.
If you want it.
I had to believe, on that first date, that all that actually did happen between us could happen between us. To me it was simply inevitable and obvious.
I wrote this as a poem once: “Cynycism is the dust on angels eyelashes”. Or something like that. Cynicism is just dust on our eyelashes – it’s not our vision, not our heart or understanding or soul. It’s just dust.
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Relationship isn’t a skill in the same way that learning the facts of history is a skill.
You can’t memorize being competent at interpersonal skills.
Can you find a book that will teach musical improvisational skills?
You think there is some guy who can teach you to day game?
No. Well, not quite.
I’ll prove it quickly.
When the Beatles first came on the scene, most all bands that they knew only played cover tunes. Playing cover tunes is a level of competence, sure, but no one gives the same respect to others or ourself for mimicry.
Later they thought they should create their own tunes.
There is a lot of music created by different people, and it’s all quite distinct, even as we usually can recognize what comes from each distinct artist.
When you create music, you’re on your own.
Being good at relationships is like being good at music. It’s going to be your own creation, and it’s going to be extremely different at different times in your life, and with different women.
There is no book about this.
You can’t learn improv, exactly, yet you can learn improv, and it does help to hang around and improv with others. Seeing others do it makes you see that it’s an option, and you might try it, on the spot.
It’s really up to you to forge and discover your way.
—————————-
irinabulygina said:
You are so right about Roosh!!! But why community of men like you doesn’t teach him manners? I mean his attitude towards women is so disrespectful….
xsplat said:
It’s a complicated subject. He’s not exactly wrong, he’s just insanely biased.
It’s not exactly the same thing.
He can be insightfully wrong – humourously wrong. Entertainingly wrong. Bravely wrong.
To be right, you have to be able to be crazy wrong, for a while.
But Roosh is also most likely permanently emotionally developmentally disabled. That’s not an insult. Some people are stupid, and that’s not an insult. Some people are smart, and that’s not a compliment. It’s just naked developmental biology leaving imprints on a brain – and brains are difficult to re-wire if developmental windows are missed, for the older, more fundamental processes, such as emotional attachment.
————–
About teaching manners, I’ll have to agree with a fundamental principal that Roosh seems to hold. Men and women tend to have personality characteristics that plot differently on charts – any one man can be more feminine than any one woman, but a statistical chart is going to show something interesting and real.
Men don’t teach other men manners, in the way that women teach manners.
You can’t even teach manners with a fist. Or a blog. Or a crowd. Persuasion is complicated.
Men do appeal to crowds, but it’s the nature of man that the most manly are the least affected by the opinion of crowds; the least succeptible to being told what manners are. The men at the top tell other people what manners are. A long discussion.
It’s complicated because narcissism is not manly – it’s a mimicry of manliness.
Manliness is responsive.
Roosh is not responsive – he’s petty and weak and avoids conflict.
He just acts like an authority, and technology allows this, in a new and weird way, because he has a ban button.
xsplat said:
I wrote this part after a slow gentleman’s approach to finding the bottom of a 750ml bottle of vodka, and originally it was posted at the bottom of the original post. I had to remove it because the mood of it only belongs at the bottom of a bottle.
But maybe even that part of my mind could use a voice, so for better or worse, here it is:
—————
Just talk about what it feels like to your own cock in your own wife. What’s with all these third person abstractions? You have totally lost track of what it even means to have a self. You are lost in a world of internet abstraction, a world of feedback from losers, where you seem to be king.
Are you king to your wife, when your cock is in her? Or do you need to retreat to your laptop to feel like a king?
Everybody has the right to talk about and interpret their own experiences.
Critics live in abstractions, and distance themselves deliberately, because no one likes pain, and an abstract world might be less painful.
Sure, Rollo.
It’s also anhedonic. Talk about your own fucking life, directly – you ain’t god with some ultimate viewpoint. You only have your own life – that’s it. Put your cock into the first person gonzo story.
Everything that you’ve ever written is not a cultural critique or an analysis of the nature of men and women. Everything that you have ever written is gonzo. You just refused to put yourself into the narrative.
And it’s a story of a guy who learned a bit, and gave up. A guy who thought that higher education was a thing, and that he had it.
You are a guy who refuses to put himself into the gonzo narrative. But every thing sentient puts you into that first person; even every last disinherited part of your loneliest forgotten self. And me; I put you into the gonzo narrative, Rollo Tommasi. It’s you who writes that, and that’s your personal first person lived life, on virtual paper. It’s not third person. Writhe and squirm and dissimulate – everywhere you go, there you are.
Your narrative really sucks, Rollo. It’s the narrative of your own personal life, and it’s not meta in the way you wish it was. Unless you want to identify with people who share your story.
Your story is small and undeveloped. You can have a next chapter. Just do it. Just have a next chapter. Or at least stop depressing everyone with your sad life. Stop telling other people that your life is the story of the limits of all their possible depressing futures. Mr. Meta.
If you want to talk about spreading a realistic message about improving happiness, start by feeling it. Then talk about how it feels, personally, contextually, in taste feeling form sound and current perception. Be there, now, and share that. Meta man.
Keyboard jockying about losers? Without knowing or caring or telling them how to feel and share love?
You are the losers you talk about, Rollo. Every post you make is gonzo, for years and years and years, to everyone else but you. It’s obvious that you are a reporter embedded in your own life, talking about your deeply personal lived exprecience. It’s always obvious. It’s so clearly about your own marriage
There are websites that give a readout of the most common words used on web pages. Rollos is what you would think it is. It’s so predictable it’s like an insane robot from a nightmare. Alpha Hypergamy Bucks!
—————-
Why should I pretend to be dispassionate, as if we are all just disengaged from watching a distant TV set?
When people comment on forums, are they disengaged?
No, from what I see, people believe and are affected.
Lovers try to be distanced, but men and women both can’t help but be inextricable from their love affairs.
Propoganda is a science and art, and it works. Words hypnotize.
You are reading propoganda on other sites, and on my site.
It’s a real war – it’s a real thing. People are really affected. There is less distance between you and your computer screen than you imagine. This is a meme war, and the end result is overall ability to accept personal happiness and work towards mutual and my own happiness.
Starrman said:
Old friend, may I call you that?…
I know when your happy because your blog is quiet, retired and swallowed up in silence.
Your unhappiness vents itself very clearly and provocatively as your kettle builds up a head of steam. I need the steam and I’m well aware of the silence…
‘Click on the blog, damn he’s not around.’ Click, nope!’ Click, nope, click nope, click wtf will you just find a new one to corral. I lean deeply into your passion about loving a female, I easily travel along with your highest and good intentions, I envy your discipline when practicing your chosen vehicles of approaching higher self.
But, the young ones are not the old ones (maybe that’s the point). Perhaps this why I give Rollo some leeway. He opened my eyes as you have opened my eyes. You who write are all teachers and are blind by the very fact that you write what you think.
Poor Roosh, he is stuck. I don’t envy him. I don’t envy any of you.
You are politely scathing when referring to others in sphere, and you have been beat upon handily when others disagree with you. It’s hard to be kind to others when we are in our cups: living life as we do. What is my point?
I’ve traveled the older women for said conversation, for subtle teachings, and for total sluttery. You can do what you wish and they will respond. “They” are not easily molded as the young ones. They respond to youth as you do with your love’s.
Youth follows the old for guidance, for protection, for continuity and here is where I lean on the morality tale: Do we as aging men, take and mold our young women for pleasure’s sake? I love that idea, most men do. But too much cum makes an anarchist.
I want you to succeed in your endeavors with your one love. But do we develop them just for us or do we develop them to think for themselves?
Biology seems to lean on keeping them under wraps. Civilization, Western to be specific, seems to develop them into questioning guidance, protection and continuity.
Not an easy question. Perhaps one should read Montaigne, Emerson & Rand and mix it up with Maslow.
There are urges and there is discipline… A blending might be an answer but I struggle mightily with it.
Please don’t be too happy, for I won’t have to stretch my neurons so much.
A thinking fan…
S.
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John said:
X, what you espouse is fine and dandy. However, I’m sure I’m not alone in this:
Almost all my life, since becoming sexually aware, every woman with whom I wanted to become romantic said to me some version of, “You’re such a great guy, you’re going to make some girl a great catch.” But never her. Whatever woman I heard that from always passed my romantic desires into the future, and on to some other fictional woman “out there.”
For forty years, as I am now 60, the same gentle yet devastating rejection. Over and over again.
Enter the internet, and Game. A day late and a dollar short. Late to the table again, I missed dinner.
At 60, I cannot make up for lost time. I am stuck with over 40 years’ worth of memories of nights sleeping in an empty bed.
So if the Three Rs don’t have the answer for younger men to the same plight that I have suffered, who does? You? If so, time’s a wasting. If a man cannot learn how to get over the first hurdle, he cannot finish the race, let alone win it.
xsplat said:
Hi John. I understand and empathize. I used to get the same words from girls, all the time. Some even went so far as to say that they used to think that I was gay. It was bad, for many years.
That was after I divorced, at age 24. I did date a bit, but not as much as I needed.
Things improved for me the more I dated. I did date a few young hotties, but it was easier to keep older women interested in me, and I also used to fly in an Indonesian girl to live with me over the course of 3 years. It was the Indo girl who taught me how to be dominant in a relationship, as she was culturally and naturally submissive, plus my employee. Since then I’ve treated every girl as my employee.
If you are 60 and want to make up for lost time, can you relocate to a country more favorable for a man of your age to date? The ex for my 21 year old Filipina, back when I was living there at age 39, was 60. And his newer replacement girl was at least as stunningly incredibly hot. Nineteen, as I recall.
If you do relocate, chances are it will take a few years of learning curve to get out of the chump zone. That’s normal.
Reading stuff on the old Roissy blog, pre 2012 might be a big help towards being dominant and playful and charming with girls. I can’t see much value on Rollos blog in terms of that, but if you can then great. Just be careful not to swallow his poisonous idea that you will stop being dominant and charming the moment you assume a provider role. That’s self defeating garbage advice used only as panacea for wounded men to feel better about not being able to turn around their social positions within their current relationships, and to prevent heartbreak in their future ones. As actual game advice it’s anti-game. Learned helplessness that keeps men down.
Roissy teaches bullshit learned helpless too – especially now, with his insane dark triad nonsense. It’s difficult for most guys to tease out the wheat from the chaff.
As for Roosh, I have not read his books, but I’m not aware that he gives any dating advice at all, or that he dates. He gives seduction advice and he “busts a nut”, as he calls it. Both him and the girls he masturbates into seem completely disinterested in ever meeting again. That’s complete failure in my opinion, on so many levels. From before the beginning all the way to finishing too soon.
As for my blog, I try my best, but it’s incredibly difficult to give dating advice. Mostly I talk about my own life, which is often a bit fucked up, and of course requires my personality at the center of it. You’ll have to tease out the wheat here also. I plan to write some ground breaking and important new pieces, but frankly am a bit put off by the lack of comments here, so keep putting it off.
The key is to date date date. Blogs and advice can help, but you’ve got to date.
At your age that will be much easier in countries where the girls are poor and into dating older guys. If you put a lot of time and effort into learning charm, you will be surprised what genuine feelings young women can have for older men.
People with no experience of young women or girls from other countries have no option but to sqeeze square pegs into round holes. They’ll think that the girls are only with you for money, fake their orgasms, and won’t love you.
Ya, even the girl might think that at first. But it’s straight up biology. The poor things do fall in love, and will orgasm, and will get quite attached, if you know how to be charming as fuck, a great lay, and dominant. More than likely you’ll get marriage proposals more than you like, once you learn how to be fully social that way.
But of course the more socially skilled you are, and the higher up the value ladder you make yourself, the more options you’ll have with what types of relationships you can create and sustain. Some people put more than one girl into the same house. Some do partner swapping. Some maintain open relationships. The types of relationships people have been having are innumerable. Just never judge a book by it’s cover. It’s how your woman treats you that determines your status in her eyes. Not how keyboard jockeys put pegs into holes.