Every now an then you meet someone you really click with. If it’s a woman and we click really deeply, we’re inclined to call her a soul mate.
But guys click too. And with guys friendships seem easier to sustain long distance; a year can pass and we’ll just take up the last conversation as if continuing from yesterday.
One of my bro-mates shares my passion for women. He’s a sensitive, gifted, fun loving, erotic, dominant, and big hearted man who women naturally fall for, and fall for hard. I was honoured today by an in depth confessional of his love affairs with the two main women in his life, and the joys and stresses that were involved. It seems that relationships are just as fascinating and adventurous to him as they are to me.
He is not a player; he is several levels above that. Maybe one day I’ll explain what I mean by that, but if he gives me permission to post his email here, you’ll get a feel for it.
In the meantime I think it’s fair enough to publicly share my response.
I’m glad that you thought of me to share all of that with.
Yes, dealing with two or more girls in loving relationships is rarefied information. The molecules of information are far apart, and at this lonely altitude it’s uncommon to sight another plane.
I’m not sure if I would have agreed with number 2s insistence and gone ahead and told #1 about #2. Honesty and love seem such an appropriate mix – and aren’t they the same thing? Unfortunately sometimes strong boundaries are more pragmatic, and managing women’s emotions is a pragmatic affair.
I am exactly like you in that I surprise myself in what comes out of me, in different contexts. I’ve come to the conclusion that I believe my own compost, and my finely crafted compost is designed to cultivate reactions out of other people. This goes far deeper than Machiavellianism, and is even more profound that Psychopathy. I genuinely, under certain contexts, feel exactly what I need to feel in order to get a reaction out of girls. It’s completely honest, and yet when looked at in this light it comes as no surprise that contradictions arise.
“Yes, I love you and want to be with you. I really do!” And then, “Yes, I love YOU and want to be with you. I really do!” Both perfectly honest, embodied, heartfelt and integrated sentiments. And yet … we are crafty. Deeply, subconsciously, and integrally crafty. We know how our being deeply moved moves others.
I remember the first time as a child becoming aware that I only cried in pain when parents were watching me. At two years old, it was a revelation. “Wait, what? The emotions that I’m genuinely feeling are used to manipulate others? They can, at some level be turned on and off at will? I’m doing this, feeling this, for effect? But if feels so REAL to ME! That is not a lie!”
The girls will do the same. They will tell you, and might even believe, that they love you for who you are and want you to be happy. That they will accept other girls. But I’ve yet to meet any woman who did not have a fundamental and deep programming to capture monogamy out of the man that she loves and is bonded to. Everything she says and does is designed to do that. Every orgasm. Every devoted meal she prepares. She is no more conscious of her manipulation of you than you could be of your own of her; it’s all unconscious programming and we feel it as authentic embodied true emotion. In order to satisfy our personal agendas, we must manipulate people. In order to effectively manipulate people, we must fully embody the emotions required.
When you date more than one girl at a time, the curtain pulls back occasionally, and you get to glimpse OZ. It’s like when you were two and stubbed your toe. At first you didn’t cry, but then your parents walked in and suddenly you find yourself wailing uncontrollably in heartfelt agony. “I would choose you.” And “I would choose you”. The emotions are honestly felt, but we also have them for strategic effect based on who is listening.
These are not contradictory choices. Any more than it’s contradictory for a child to be unable to stop crying – but only when parents are watching. The contradictions are resolved one level below our conscious emotions.
But it’s uncommon to introspect below our subjective experience, and so when our internal narrative tries to makes sense of conflicting emotions, we get cognitive dissonance to the point of nervous breakdowns. “How can I love them, but not stop hurting them?! And even if I could stop, how could I ever choose which to hurt most and which to keep? Why can’t I accept just her and only her?” At the level of the emotions at their face value, there is no resolution, only conflict.
And yet without taking the emotions exactly at their level and at face value, paint thinner strips meaning from our lives.
So we do both; we genuinely love them, and we decide, unapologetically, to admit to and follow through with our own personal agenda. No matter what path we take we compromise; we can’t eat the whole menu at each meal. And the slider between thinking of others and thinking of ourselves is too big be in a quantum state.
You want both of them, and you know it hurts them. You are willing to risk and are risking losing both of them. You’ve seen so far how passions can be ignited as women compete, but you’ve yet to see how they can be blunted once women give up and accept that the fight won’t win a primacy close enough to monogamy. My sex with M was at it’s best when she was fighting for me, but now is much more hit and miss, and can even at times be disappointing. We’ve been together for five years, but I point the finger of blame for lowered passion not to boredom, but to her acceptance of defeat. And no matter what any girl says or believes that she believes, anything less than monogamousness is defeat. On a primal level beyond the influence of words.
Getting older is a series of transitions of perspective, and I’ve noticed a general trend that age makes people more pragmatic about competing interests. At first it’s painful to even acknowledge them; “Can’t we all just get along? Isn’t there a mutually beneficial solution? Does it have to be zero sum? Let’s find a symbiosis.”
But there is no perfect symbiosis that lasts between men and women. That’s debatable of course – some old married couples somewhere may have it. But I don’t think there is. We have competing agendas, plain and simple. We get jealous. Even within our own mind we have competing interests for intimacy and independence. If you get what you ideally want, the girls will not get what they ideally want. You are doing a hell of a great job in getting what you want, which necessitates them being at least satisfied enough, but preferably thrilled and addicted and profoundly and happily attached to you.
I have many ups and downs with my girls. It’s not constant, but it’s common. I do not expect nor even aim for harmony. The closer girls get to me, the stronger their feelings. The legal profession holds a different culpability for crimes of passion. I have seen girls hysterical at me and at each other. And I’ve seen calm and careful explanations. Underneath it all is the same thing; agenda. Women do want monogamoushness out of their mates, no matter what they say or do. Every single act they perform is a spontaneously choreographed movement to elicit monogamoushness.
Men want sex and devotion out of women. You’ve cracked the code – very, very few men have. You’ve realized that you not only can, but are very adept at getting devotion out of more than one woman at the same time. You are so good at it that you don’t even have to lie about it.
One reason that you are so good at it is that you are honest and kind and fun loving with yourself, and you want to extend all that loving and honesty out towards those who are magnetized to you. You are genuine.
But don’t let that genunineness fool you. Kids genuinely cry in front of their parents, because we are biologically programmed to seek attention from care givers when under duress. The emotions are real, but conditional. You genuinely push all the right buttons of these women, by being authentic. But authentic is only the top layer. There is another layer below authentic, and it is agenda.
It’s difficult to come to terms with this. Because we want symbiosis. We don’t want to cause suffering. Love is supposed to be about making each other happy.
Unfortunately, love is also a battle of competing interests. If you choose to maximize the girls happiness, it can only come at the expense of your own, in some areas of your life. These are negotiations people make with themselves, usually unconsciously and explained by our internal press secretary with pretty rationalizations. “It’s not right to cheat” “Marriage takes work and sacrifice”. “I don’t want her to cheat, and so I respect her emotions and won’t cheat also”.
These are all very popular and workable strategies. Workable for most people. They are no longer workable for me, because I’ve crossed the line. I no longer see empathy and intimacy as inextricably intertwined. Empathy is feeling inside myself the agenda of other, to the degree that I empathize with and become entangled with that agenda.
When my V found out the 2nd time that I was still fucking other girls, I told her that I don’t feel guilty about it. She asked what I do feel guilty about, and I told her throwing away excess food on my plate. She’s Chinese, so she feels no guilt in throwing away food. It took me many years to realize that if I’m going to make a choice, that it’s not in my best interest to feel guilty about it. I didn’t invent evolved biology, I just happen to embody it. Competing sexual interests is simply built right in. There is no mutual symbiosis that lasts for long, in sexual love affairs. For men who prefer lust with their romance, it’s either parallel or serial monogamy. And when it’s parallel, the women will hurt. As will we. We’ll have horrible upheavals, and often.
It’s built right into the fabric. It is the thread that composes the fabric. Take away the upheavals and the pain, and you also take away the love and the passion and the drive and the bonds. It’s a gestalt, and that’s what you signed up for.
That’s my opinion so far. I share your ambition to find a higher level solution. I admire the ambition too. I hope I never give up looking for deep lovers who can share time and even the same bed together.
So far all of my experience tells me that it’s a very good pipe dream. The real situation has evolved biological constraints to our emotional responses, and the responses of our women.
I remember the first time I had your deep insight that you can’t choose what you want. That was a biggie. You can’t.
And from that insight, it follows that you can’t choose not to have competing interests.