The big picture is that people want to be happy, and that the big picture is exactly this and none other than this “we have to see the bigger picture and use all our faculties to maximize pleasure for the long term.”

This means that we agree that there are many different avenues and ways that our competing internal interests find happiness and satisfaction. We want cookies, and we want to look good in the mirror. We want to be rich in cookies, and we get pleasure from sharing cookies. Therefore we need strategies to take into account all these competing interests, and find the best strategic balance. Eat not too many cookies, AND not too little cookies. In order to maximize happiness we have to also indulge in just the right amount of cookies. The desire for cookies and the enjoyment of cookies is a GOOD thing that increases life satisfaction.

We make sacrifices so that we can earn the money to pay for the cookies, just like we make sacrifices so that we can fuck. That’s nothing to do with being a dancing monkey for our desires, or a being a dancing monkey for cookies, it’s about good life strategy for leading a good fulfilling human life.

As has been mentioned, there is no cohesive MGTOW set of values, however when I make sweeping generalizations such as “MGTOWs are puritans at war with their own desires”, I do it for a reason. Regardless of what any standardized MGTOW philosophy is makes no bearing on my statement. Guys who take the view mentioned in the first sentence of my last MGTOW hit job post, the view that seeking sex is making oneself into a dancing monkey and being under the thumb of uncontrolled desires have a FUCKED UP FRAME OF REFERENCE OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE ALIVE AS A HUMAN BEING. That’s pretty important. The puritan attitude of not indulging becomes an obsession with control, and all of the important values of life get turned exactly on their heads.

MGTOW guys, regardless of MGTOW philosophy, often espouse this puritan fucked up view, and are LIVING LIFE WRONG. It’s not just about seeking sex or not. It’s the very relationship to desire that is fucked up.

People who read that MGTOW article got confused as to what it was about, and I’ll remind them now; it was about the first sentence:

I’ve never really groked the MGTOW stance that working to raise SMV and be good at seduction is working to be a dancing monkey in the service of pussy.

Which brings us back to:

“But we don’t postpone eating the cookie for the sake of not eating cookies – we postpone eating it so that we can later eat more cookies.”

Some people get so used to the idea of postponing pleasure for the sake of a better future, that they start to mistake the very act of not indulging with a good life strategy, in and of itself.

That’s fucked up.

Just like postponing reward indefinitely, into some non existent afterlife is fucked up.

Back again to the fundamental principles – suffering and happiness. Without these principles there is no MEANING in life, what so ever. There is no basis for ethics. There is nothing but robotic, nihilistic calculation. Without including our subjective wellbeing, we are just atoms bouncing around, and that means nothing. Meaning means something because it matters to someone – it’s subjective. We need pleasure and pain as the basis of any philosophy.

And so there is only one conclusion. Maximizing overall pleasure and avoiding overall pain.

The fact that guys who identify as MGTOW wanted to read that blog post as being about whether or not the pursuit of sex is or is not the only avenue towards happiness points to how invested their egos are in protecting themselves from being seen as lesser beings for avoiding the pursuit of sex. Reread that first sentence if you still find yourself wanting to frame the argument that way.

I’ve never really groked the MGTOW stance that working to raise SMV and be good at seduction is working to be a dancing monkey in the service of pussy.

The point I’m making is of fundamental importance.