Random Xpat Rantings

Contemplative dominance for the modern man

Are Dads not offered lifetime monogamy incapable of emotional openness with women?

Posted by xsplat on July 19, 2013

WestIndianArchie wrote: Whether a girl is going to be faithful to her guy is not something the guy can detect EVER.

A girl in fact may never cheat on her boyfriend/husband, but that’s entirely within her discretion, not his.

Agreed that even if there are girls who are no or low infidelity risk, that man can never know.

But some people openly conclude that since there are no Madonnas, therefore girls are not worthy.

I fail to see the logical connection. Why is extreme long term fidelity so important for emotional openness to so many? It’s kind of like Liz Lemon holding out to marry astronaut Mike Dexter. Ok, so there is no perfection. Problem?

tiggaling Wrote: I think the Madonna/Whore complex isn’t just cultural. It seems rooted in female behavior. There really is a stark dichotomy in the behavior of women playing either the sexual or maternal role. Moreover, there’s a kind of psychological segregation that women perform in acting out these two social roles, as lover versus mother/wife. You don’t see this same sort of schism in male behavior to remotely the same extent.

Dad vs Cad?

People have different sociosexual orientations. What causes modern men the greatest pain is when their sociosexual orientation (their desire for new partners without commitment) is lower then that of the average womans. While women do have an average lower SS score, the Dad strategists who can’t find women with even greater respect for dedicated monogamy have a tough time especially now when society is structured such that their offering of fidelity and provisioning is worth so little to women.

But even if these instinctual mating strategies are hard wired and set in individuals, guys who want Madonas and can’t imagine loving a woman who is a fidelity risk must certainly still have emotional options, right? Wrong? It’s difficult for me to imagine being stuck treating women like objects to pump and dump just because lifetime monogamy is no longer on the table. That seems so black and white. Is the instinct for the low SS Dad strategists THAT deeply set and programmed?

3 Responses to “Are Dads not offered lifetime monogamy incapable of emotional openness with women?”

  1. Snoeperd said

    Imho youre thinkin about it too rationally. Its a play between visceral sexual attraction and disgust for the slut she can be. You cant rationalize yourself out of these feelings, you can just try to focus on fucking and not on imagining how she sucked half the continent the day before

  2. balboa69 said

    The madonna/whore complex is a useful concept to begin to discuss male conflictedness about women’s sexuality, but it is only a starting point. This is a really difficult topic and, like your take on serial (parallel) monogamy and tantric sex, an area that the usual blogs and men’s discussions haven’t covered adequately or even considered.

    Contemporary culture shames males for being uneasy about a partner’s sexual history, which of course is a proxy for fidelity risk, while a large section of “PUA” or Red Pill community encourages a cold “enjoy the liberated sluts” attitude. Both of these approaches offer nothing for the hard-wired dads among us.

    Meanwhile on the Roosh forum you can see people deriding the skanks of the Anglosphere while encouraging men to pump-and-dump traditional, feminine women from other parts of the world (who are not morally superior, but just tend towards a different sexual strategy). This only transfers a problem from one environment to another, and creates new problems.

    Clearly, your approach to relationships is an exploration towards a new way, but I feel there is more to be done. I see myself as somewhere in the middle, not interested in simple pump-and-dump, but perhaps not such an intensely hard-wired Madonna-seeking provider as some.

    It’s still a struggle to find true open-heartedness towards women when I have no illusions about their sexual strategies and sometimes still feel like I am pushing buttons, PUA-style, even somewhat successfully. In fact I can be somewhat disappointed when I successfully seduce a woman. I want it to be harder! I want her to be different! Somewhat like Groucho Marx, I feel suspicious of any club that would accept me as a member.

    More work to be done, I think, regarding new ways to experience loving connection in an environment which punishes traditional providers.

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