WestIndianArchie wrote: Whether a girl is going to be faithful to her guy is not something the guy can detect EVER.

A girl in fact may never cheat on her boyfriend/husband, but that’s entirely within her discretion, not his.

Agreed that even if there are girls who are no or low infidelity risk, that man can never know.

But some people openly conclude that since there are no Madonnas, therefore girls are not worthy.

I fail to see the logical connection. Why is extreme long term fidelity so important for emotional openness to so many? It’s kind of like Liz Lemon holding out to marry astronaut Mike Dexter. Ok, so there is no perfection. Problem?

tiggaling Wrote: I think the Madonna/Whore complex isn’t just cultural. It seems rooted in female behavior. There really is a stark dichotomy in the behavior of women playing either the sexual or maternal role. Moreover, there’s a kind of psychological segregation that women perform in acting out these two social roles, as lover versus mother/wife. You don’t see this same sort of schism in male behavior to remotely the same extent.

Dad vs Cad?

People have different sociosexual orientations. What causes modern men the greatest pain is when their sociosexual orientation (their desire for new partners without commitment) is lower then that of the average womans. While women do have an average lower SS score, the Dad strategists who can’t find women with even greater respect for dedicated monogamy have a tough time especially now when society is structured such that their offering of fidelity and provisioning is worth so little to women.

But even if these instinctual mating strategies are hard wired and set in individuals, guys who want Madonas and can’t imagine loving a woman who is a fidelity risk must certainly still have emotional options, right? Wrong? It’s difficult for me to imagine being stuck treating women like objects to pump and dump just because lifetime monogamy is no longer on the table. That seems so black and white. Is the instinct for the low SS Dad strategists THAT deeply set and programmed?