Integrity game vs feeding them the dream

The website seekingarrangement.com is a place for men of means and women who want a sponsor to hook up. Some men have realized they can get a few initial lays out of these girls by pretending to be rich and looking for a rent-a-girl.

Nomad77 writes about this:

Everyone is free to carry themselves as they wish. Personally, I don’t misrepresent my intentions to girls. I want them to know what I am after and I am not willing to lie to them to get it. My personal integrity is worth far more to me than any pussy.

At first glance it would seem Nomad is loosing out by not being flexible enough with his morals. But let’s take a closer look.

His approach is actually a different but still practical strategy. People who lie habitually can become good liers, however it’s my belief that the very subtle body language and facial cues that a man with high integrity gives off are too difficult to fake.

If you have carefully cultivated integrity, people pick up on it. This signal you send out can be used to personal advantage.

People become more willing to invest emotionally in you if they trust you.

People trust you more if you cultivate integrity.

It’s one strategy.

I prefer it myself. It works in conjunction with other strategies I use, especially with getting girls emotionally invested. High affect and high trust leads to bonding, which when combined with dominance leads to huge hand.

Personal integrity may be more suited to guys who like a feeling of intimacy when they fuck. I know it’s popular to believe that intimacy means a lack of control, as one must give in to all sorts of messy emotions, some of which can be used as hooks that give a girl power, thus making the man weaker. But the weakness can work both ways, and if you are skilled in the arena of intimacy, you can handily win the battle.

Nomad77: In an age where women feel there is no integrity, a man that has some is automatically granted a higher status among men.

I’d like to think so. Of course we’re assuming that the man is also wise and wiley, and not an easily manipulated and duped naive chump.

It’s common for people to talk right past each other in these matters, as our experiences and our approaches can narrowly define our views and reality. People with low affect (those who don’t scream during sex or get emotionally involved with women) and a low trust strategy are not going to know of – and in fact not even going to want to admit the possibility of – any other world that arises from a different strategy.

cheerfulwish: You mean be on to something here. If micro expressions are universally understood and you unconsciously Broadcast those “trustworthy” signals you may very well be getting a leg up over the competition.

I put “trustworthy” in quotes because I don’t think that is the signal that will be giving you a leg up with the majority of women

Yes, assuming that the signals are sub-consciously broadcast and received, there is the question of what value they can provide. I think for some strategies they would not provide much value. It depends what you want. If you want intimacy then certainly broadcasting congruency and trustworthyness will aid you. We can’t control certain facial muscles voluntarily, and so it is with the attitudes expressed in our body language. The expressions are there, and the only way we can affect them is on a deeper level than through willpower of acting. It’s about an integrity of being – who we are. Having a congruent ego – not just a momentary fleeting reaction to circumstance.

I know that some people have swallowed a religious manosphere notion that there is a polarity between emotionally open and edgy, and that girls only get wet for edgy. I see that that there are different styles, and that the styles can work for different ends. You can get a girl horny using affect and emotional bonding – in fact that will greatly help a girl to orgasm. It’s not rocket science. It’s just that some guys have a VERY strong aversion to these concepts, as it would undermine their sense of self worth, because it involves an entirely different self conception to even consider such strategies.

I know that sounds harsh, but some people would need to confront the feeling that they don’t feel love and that no one loves them and that they don’t value trust in their relationships, and rather than feel that pain it’s easier just to dismiss the entire endeavor and anyone who talks about it.

Genuine narcissists for instance are known to be incapable of both love and introspection on that fact. Pointing it out can send them into a rage. They also tend to have short lived relationships as they get dumped after people see through their masks.

So is the solution better masks? A greater volume of people to temporarily dupe? Can be. Depends what you want.

I’m just tired of hearing narcisist game talked about as if it’s the only and best game there is. And the denial of better games that lead to far, far better results.

Giovonny Wrote: There are some master con-men and con-women out there.

People can fool you. You think you can spot them but there will always been some that slip thru the cracks. The amateurs are easy to spot, the pros can be impossible to spot. They practice for decades.

I believe that, and have seen it. It took quite an embarassingly long while to see through the masks. But most of us are not such actors. It’s easier to become internally congruent than to become a master method actor who can embody different characters down to minute details convincingly and for the long term. For most of us internal congruency is by far the better strategic choice. IF you want intimacy. And of course many really don’t want that, and wouldn’t know what to do with it if they got it.

I’m going to take this a step further. It’s not only our visible body language and micro expressions that are affected by our attitudes and actions, it’s our sexual habits. Our entire being is created from what we think and do. The habits we create are a bit more dangerous than people seem to realize. It’s not a non-challant affair. We are constantly creating our future selves.

ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote: What is better game? How do you measure the quality of your results?

“I think for some strategies they would not provide much value. It depends what you want. If you want intimacy then certainly broadcasting congruency and trustworthyness will aid you.”

If you prefer “deep conversion” and owning a womans body, mind, and soul in a paternal fashion, and feeling deserving of your dominion over her, then internal and external congruence is the better strategy. Not that you have to be without guile or machiavelian street smarts of course. Just that you have to be. Be something. Be something and express that very real something. Honestly.

This is different than just feeding the girl the dream in order to get what you want from her. It’s an entirely different set up, that can yield entirely different results.

If the results you want are pump and dumps, then carry on. This strategy might just get in your way.

ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote: I aim my game at the 99% of women who … deserve to be deceived and who cannot offer any meaningful level of emotional intimacy.

Although I read similar attitudes regularly, it’s still painful to read.

I can feel meaningful connection to a cat. It’s a rare woman who can’t rise to that level.

For me it’s not about reciprocity of trustworthyness. I’m not trustworthy because the woman deserves it. I’m honest because I deserve it. And because there are side benefits, in how people react to me. Regardless of if the girl is a habitual lier or not, she’ll still respond better if she trusts you more.

And trust doesn’t mean of course that you have to do what she wants, or that you have to explain yourself to her. You can still have boundaries, do what you want, and at times be deliberately opaque. You can refuse to give any accounting of where you go and refuse to accept monogamy, all while feeling like your insides and outsides match up.

I like that feeling – that my insides and outsides match up. I feel a strength from that. That fits in nicely with the attitude of making sure all the puzzle pieces of my mental map fit together well into one congruent piece.

My dad is a genuine guy and you feel that in his presence and it has an effect on you. His genuineness gives him an authentic authority. His entire side of the family radiates genuiness and the natural class that comes from that.

Have other guys met people that after spending much time with them you want to be like them?

I’ve had several mentors in my life. They were all very genuine, warm, and authentic.

They had a presence about them that they could not have had any other way.

When you associate yourself with these types of people, you really don’t want to go back to your old sneaky teenagerish ways. You want to invest yourself with the authority to be who you are honestly, and to relate to the world in a genuine way.

Congruence isn’t just a choice or a lifestyle, it’s a way of being. A way that feels good and that once you have you want to keep. And it’s also a method that can be used to have power over other people. Genuine, warm and authentic people often magnetize a following and are socially lauded. My Grandparents for instance were always being voted as the head of their several thousands member community club, and my mentors were often mentors of many others.

Genuine authentic honest paternal love is irresistable. Cultivating this is a strategy not just for social success, but also to increase moment to moment satisfaction. It feels good to be warm and genuine, life is better that way, and life treats you better that way. Your satisfactions become more satisfying.

At the extreme flipside of the advantages to being warm and genuine are the disadvantages of being cold and duplicitous. From that we hear common complaints. People complain of no longer finding satisfaction and feeling thin inside – feeling a lack of meaning and connection and purpose, with no real warmth or satisfaction to be found inside or outside, and the world a dead grey meaningless dream.

Have you ever felt like a better person when in the company of certain people? Are there people in your past that made you a better person just for having known them? If so, then wouldn’t it follow that we could become such a person, and through our frame inspire better behaviour out of our company? Integrity is a frame that demands a high price to be able to hold strongly. The price is integrity. You can be at your most influential when you embody that frame with your whole life. Examine your mentors and tell me if you agree.

And I’d also be curious to know if there are people who do not have any mentors who are warm and authentic.

Lothario Wrote: How do you keep believing in your process ?

I don’t really try to keep believing anything, and the beliefs have changed over time. But many have stayed the same, I assume because of positive re-inforcement and examining what happens around me. I’m fond of some body centered meditations that are also in a way in line with what I was talking about, especially the inner smile, and also I suppose a feeling of groundedness, and am intellectually drawn to see a big cohesive picture, so that fits in with preferring a stable ego or self between circumstances – which I find is easier to have if you are honest inside and out. So there are practices and habits that I cultivate that do tend to re-enforce the beliefs, but I don’t feel that I believe because believing something is important. The truth is important, which means that the facts and experiences have to fit together into a cohesive big picture.

Also, I don’t really believe in morals. I believe in strategies, and that strategies are either about benefitting your self or your in-group. I don’t believe that good and bad exist platonically, as ideals outside of strategy. That’s a little harsh and nihilistic for some, but it seems possible to think that way while still being warm and feeling a meaningful connection between people. I’ve explained the ideas in terms of strategy because that’s how I really think; I wasn’t just trying to be diplomatic. It’s also how the notion of Buddhist karma is often taught – it’s not that actions are good or bad, it’s just that the results can affect people postively or negatively. Subtle difference maybe, and the shortcut of accepting our first gut emotional reaction of something being either good or bad tends to work well enough most of the time anyway. But going with the gut isn’t as useful as a more sophisticated understanding of what people do and why and what happens to them after that, which is not born from the gut. Also, believing in absolute morals allows other people to manipulate us more easily.

My position is not moralistic, but is about improving quality of life. Despite the dark triad test scores posted on the RVF site, I still believe that most people get increased life satisfaction out of increasing vagal tone and feeling intimacy and social connection, and conversely that most people could experience a gradual decline in life satisfaction by overly decreasing affect and empathy. It’s just that maintaining boundaries while keeping high affect is trickier than maintaining boundaries with low affect. My feeling is that people muddle ideas together, and assume that having strong boundaries and not getting fucked over and taking what you want from the world necessitates low affect. This strategy can in many ways be self defeating, as our affect is strongly tied in with our very ability to experience pleasure.

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