Guys with utopian visions are innefective downers
Posted by xsplat on December 1, 2012
In Jakarta you occasionally see roving bands of beta boys, all dressed in black, carrying sticks. They are the Muslim enforcers of social conduct. They’ll raid discos to shut them down, they’ll scream and pout, and make a lot of noise.
Generally they are seen as an irritant. They aren’t respected. Their antics are not getting them fucked or married. Disco life is more popular than ever.
In my last post I made the point that advocating to others a low socio-sexual score lifestyle doesn’t work. It used to work, when communities were smaller. But even in coconut grove villages in Indonesia, due to the advent of widely available birth control, the internet and easy travel, there are different opportunities and costs and benefits to actions. A girl isn’t bound for life by the gossip of her neighbors, and flying to Bali for the weekend isn’t going to get her pregnant. So it doesn’t matter what the Imam and the boys in black say. She’s going to go to Bali for the weekend.
In the comments section of my last post ASDF and Solomon took offense to my stance. ASDF went so far as to label me with shameful epithets. I’m a nihilist, and a parasite.
One of my responses:
I’m not telling anyone to avoid marriage nor am I denying that some men find purpose and meaning in having kids. Go for it, if that’s what works for you.
I’m talking here about the likelyhood of convincing other people to follow the same path.
I understand that for you it’s important to feel a part in a greater whole, and without that life lacks meaning. I personally believe that it’s a failure of imagination and the resulting arrogance of solipsism that fails to see that other people might find meaning and satisfaction outside of family life. I don’t think it does you or your argument any favors to casually toss around the term nihilist at those who have lifestyles that you don’t want to emulate.
But whether your favorite lifestyle is the best or not has nothing to do with what I’m saying in this post. I’m saying that men and women are barely affected by the shaming tactics such as you are using here. Do you expect me to change my lifestyle because of your comment? Has anyone ever emailed you and said “wow, thank so much, you changed my worldview, and now I’m going to think about settling down and having kids and getting married?”
We can debate it, and I could be wrong – but if we are going to debate something it would be good to at least agree on what we are debating. All I’m saying here is that the effort to get men and women who we are not intimately involved with to conform to social and sexual standards is futile. I’m not making any comment on the value and validity of those standards. I’m just saying making that effort is a useless waste of time.
And at the very least, it won’t give the individual the hand he needs in his relationships. That will only come from individual effort.
I’ll drop this quote from Iknowexactly from the RooshVForum here:
As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, everyone has different proclivity for pair-bonding and it’s important to know your own level, so slobs can find sluts and “betas” like me can find good girls.
Where people go wrong is assuming their own view is the only one.
For instance, some players think no one can be happy in a 1:1 relationship, and some betas think sluts and slobs are monsters.
Back, back, back to the wisdom of the ancient oracle: Know thyself.
Also, you often talk about dopamine. Some of us are more about the oxytocin. You strike me as more of oxytocin kind of a guy. People get oxytocin rushes when they watch close family members get married, or when they perform charity, or when they are with their closest loved ones – be they grandchildren or fresh young lovers.
I think you’ll find you understand what other people are saying with greater comprehension if you allow that your view is not the only possibility – not all of us can find life satisfaction in the way that works best for you. Some of us would be absolutely misearable working towards what you consider is a “greater good”.
People have varied socio-sexual scores, and you can’t argue people out of one tendency towards another. The human condition is a condition of castes, and no matter how much you value the family man caste, evolution says that all niches will be filled, as nature abhors a vacuum.
And again – back to my main point. REGARDLESS of the value of your favored caste, it NO LONGER works to have it as the male strategy to lets-all-band-together-and-promote-lifetime-monogamy-where-the-girls-marry-young. It is not working now, and is not going to start working in the future.
Describing reality as it is is a whole different game than talking about what would be a nice thing to aim for. If the aim is unrealistic, then all the talk of utopia is just a sidetrack from enjoying this real reality the best we can.
And if you are getting in the way of enjoying this real reality, you are diminishing the quality of life for yourself and others. Which is the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.
Update: I just saw this quote on admiracod’s blog
‘…when something is detestable, and yet inevitable, what one must do is not merely to endure it–a hard task whatever one may do—but find an excuse for loving it. Everything is a matter of points of view, and misfortune is often only the sign of a false interpretation of life.’
Henry de Montherlant