Nek: I remember when I first stumbled upon Roissy (now CH, although I suspect it’s a different writer), and he touted “looks not mattering very much” quite often. While I agree having game and average looks is better than good looks in no game, I did something that made me understand his dynamic much more. I went to and looked up roissy in DC. And that’s when it hit me as to why he’d tout the “game” aspect of attraction so much. He’s already a tall, good looking dude. For a guy like him, you, or flyfreshandyoung, game would simply be the final piece to the master puzzle. So from that perspective, it might seem like “game” is the end all but simply for you and guys like you it’s just the final piece, a piece which has a significant multiplier effect.

Nek, yes, even the best thinkers and writers with a great wealth of experience can become confused as to what value to put on the various variables of attraction. I’ve long disagreed with what seems to be Roissy’s view that in the end all attractive traits boil down to or can be replaced by confidence. I think it’s a pretty huge mental map error.

I view the various attractive traits as belonging to different categories, and it’s your overall total score that matters. You can’t be ugly and broke and short and skinny with no social support and super confident and have as high a total score as a guy with a full set of attraction triggers. And a higher total score means a larger pool of available women, as well as an easier time building strong attraction.

And like you say, scoring high with looks gives you a big boost to your total.

It’s not ALL about confidence and attitude and what you say and do. And sometimes that’s not even the easiest variable to affect. A man needs to play the long term game and slowly over years raise his value, through every means possible. Highlighting only game can really do a harmful disservice to the young guy, who can focus too much time and energy on learning to push attraction buttons that won’t serve his needs as well once he’s older, and neglecting fundamentals such as career or his body or even his social networks. And the game changes all the time – a guy might move to a location where provider traits carry more weight. Or meet a girl who is looking for affectionate bonding with an emotionally available man.

If you scan a crowd looking for the color red, all the people with red shirts will pop right out at you, and you’ll barely notice the yellow shirts. I hear guys say that western girls can only be seduced with frat boy game. Maybe that has something to do with their club game low investment pump and dump targets? It isn’t that the aloof game is the univeral core principle of the alpha, it’s that some guys most easily find success with that on some girls in some venues. It’s a style of attraction, not a core principle.

But everything that’s ever said is said from a perspective, and even the most insightful and interesting writers can have this blind spot: guys who already have high value can run an aloof game that either flat out doesn’t work for guys who lack their advantages, or completely misses addressing the emotional needs of a regular non-dark-triad man.

I’m an ugly short guy, with a big bald spot and not much on the top. In any bar or club 98% of the time I’m the ugliest guy there. Being aloof does nothing for guys who are not already projecting high value. We are just an aloof wallflower that nobody cares about then.

There are different brands of game that people use, and the other two Rs heavily emphasize a brand of game that works best for higher value guys (tall, with at least average to above average looks) who are looking for one night stands or no strings attached relationships. Roosh for instance is careful to select girls who are putting out signals of sexual availability. He may even at times be screening for women with attachment avoidance issues.

But there are other types of game that rely more on emotions. A love at first sight type of game, that includes the black and the white keys on the keyboard. Dominance as well as bonding.

We’re going to learn more over time as more men from a variety of backgrounds join in the discussion. The aloof alpha game is a style, not a fundamental principle.

Aloof is a word, and although we’d like to twist it into whatever convenient form fits our ideology, it still holds the simple community agreed upon dictionary definition.


1) Not friendly or forthcoming; cool and distant.
2) Conspicuously uninvolved and uninterested, typically through distaste.

And although he sometimes talks about amused mastery, Roissy/Heartiste still uses this common dictionary definition when he talks about being aloof. From his latest post “HER: My vagina burns for violent sexual adventures with an emotionally opaque, aloof badboy who makes me a little scared for my life.”

We’ve read too many times that fast seduction relies on being everything the provider is not. That’s not truth. There is a style of fast seduction that includes confidence and dominance AND emotional openness.

I should mention that I’ve found a way to compensate for being ugly, that works on some women. I obviously have a smaller pool of women for whom I meet their minimum level of attractiveness, but none the less once I get my foot in the door I can close the deal and then get them deeply emotionally hooked and physically bonded.

The ways that I overcome the handicaps of ugliness have more to do with strong passion, and sex. Subjects you would be unlikely to see discussed on the two R’s blogs. Roissy suggests to not even care if the girl comes, and to use the same rough manhandling use-her-for-your-personal-enjoyment attitude for every sex session. No “Daddy loves you”s from him. His seduction style is absolutely not about having the girl feel engaged in a whirlwind of mutual romance, and if it’s his relationship style is it’s not discussed.

There are huge, monstrous blind spots in game as discussed on some manosphere blogs.

So don’t just rely on that style, unless it is congruent with your needs and inner workings.