Apollo So many commentors and bloggers seem to focus on being Alpha, or they imply that others are not Alpha as an insult, and I bet in the vast majority of those cases the various people involved in those exchanges have completely different ideas of what the others mean. Some people think it refers to social rank or dominance (the English language definition), some think it refers solely to success in attracting women (the Roissy definition), and some think it can be applied to selfish, self involved “naturals” with no self control or sense of responsibility (the “Corey Worthington” definition). Yet others seem to define it as having qualities of peak masculinity (problematic because then the definition of masculinity itself becomes an issue.)

So is making your primary focus in life becoming “Alpha” an admirable thing? Is someone implying that you are not “Alpha” an insult? It depends. … I’m much more interested in framing discussions about which behaviors/strategies or tactics will produce which results/outcomes, rather than which behaviors are “Alpha””

I read on wikipedia that “Individuals with an intrinsic religious orientation (i.e., religion as an end) tend to be sociosexually restricted, while those with an extrinsic religious orientation (i.e., religion as a means to achieve non-religious goals) tend to be unrestricted”

Unrestricted in the context of that page about socio-sexual orientation means more open to sex outside of relationships. So guys who like to fuck around are more likely to see religion as a tool to do something with, a means towards a different end, and guys who prefer monogamy tend to view religion as the end in itself.

I see the same orientations regarding game. I’ve had discussions over and over with people who really can’t see game as a means to an end, and who fight the very idea of knowing what you want and going after it. Really. I know it’s hard to believe, but people have explicitly told me that deliberately gaming a girl will get in the way of getting the girl, and instead you should focus on not even wanting her and becoming a great man and let the girls fall into your lap. To deliberately not know what you want, because knowing what you want will obstruct you in achieving your goal.

What is happening is that some people have huge resistance to viewing game as a pragmatic means to an end. In fact they can discount the very concept of game, when it gets down to it, because it doesn’t fit in with their idea of a fitting be all you can be project.

I’m all for a be all you can be project. It will help with game, and at some points will overlap and be congruent with game. You will be more attractive when you make yourself into a more attractive person.

To know where one concept starts and another ends it helps to visualize them in circles. Draw one circle that includes all the attractive qualities that you get from the BAYCBP. Draw another that includes all the qualities you will develop and display with learning how to socialize in a charming, sexually escalating and dominant way with girls, or game for short. Do the two circles overlap 100%? If so then for you game is your BAYCBP, as they are indistinguishable.

Are there any attractive qualities in your BAYCBP circle that are not also in the game circle? If so, your game circle is incomplete. Anything that’s attractive and that helps you seduce women should, by definition, go into the game circle. Working out, getting a fast car, good clothes, cologne, public speaking ability, dance ability, business success, martial arts or sports success, or anything that raises your confidence or social status is part of your game.

Is there anything in your game circle that is not in your BAYCBP cirlce? There might be. I don’t think it makes you a better man to lie about your age, for instance, but that can help you to get a relationship going.

So there are overlaps between the BAYCBP and game, they are not the same, and anything about the BAYCBP that is attractive to women is a subset of game. Game has more options and tools for attraction than the BAYCBP then.

There may be portions of the BAYCBP that are not part of game, but again by definition they could not then also be attractive to women. Maybe you feel you are a better man if you express your true feelings and opinions at any time irrespective of social cues, like a true aspy. You might work hard to develop that sort of cutting honesty. Or you might develop a fascination with memorizing chess moves to be able to play at a low tournament level. Or you might want to out-do all your friends with your memorization of arcane sports stats. Such BAYCB projects by themselves could yield negative pussy returns, and your pussy bank would carry a deficit.

You can work on the BAYCB project just for the sake of it, like a monogamously oriented religious person is religious just for the sake of it. Or you can have a goal, and figure out how to go after it, and then play to your strengths to go after that goal in the most efficient way.

Game is a tool used in a pragmatic way to realize a different end. An end that is not game.

Knowing where you want to go isn’t an obstruction to getting where you want to go; it’s the essential first step. Game is results oriented. It is the map and manual that shows you all the tools, equipment and skills you will need to get to your goal. As you travel you will change as a person – you will become the type of person who has the skills and resources and fortitude to reach that goal. And you’ll create new goals for yourself.

There can be a lot of congruence between a man’s BAYCBP and his goal oriented game strategies – but let’s not fool ourselves. Women are also attracted to bad, bad men. If you build it, they will not come. You can spend years on your passion for poetry writing and not get any closer to developing your harem or dominating that “good girl” into a workable marriage where you wear the pants. The BAYCBP can at best overlap with the game project, but if you want results, use the map that shows you how to get where you want to go.

Apolo continued: There’s some real issues with that perspective though, of which you’re probably aware. Namely, there’s got to be a reason behind the drive to be all you can be – a better man. No one commits the energy required for effective self improvement without sufficient motivation. It’s basic human nature that we act only to gain pleasure or avoid pain, so there’s got to be some reward being gained or some punishment being avoided for self improvement to happen. So, they self improve to become better men so that they will then get women, at least in part? In the end they are still doing what they do so that they get access to the women they want. Why engage in the mental gymnastics to try and obscure that? … anyone who uses the ideal of “Alpha” as a shield so that they don’t have to face what they really desire is just weak.

Shit, there’s nothing wrong with a man learning game to get laid, and if any man is embarrassed enough about that idea that he can’t even admit it to himself, then perhaps he needs to engage in some self examination and a reassessment of his priorities in life. (Note that I’m not implying here that getting laid necessarily SHOULD be one of those priorities, just that he should understand what his priorities are and not be ashamed of them.)