The Manosphere Matrix
Posted by xsplat on June 15, 2012
From Andreas
If looks matter it is still far better to believe that they don’t matter if you are an average looking guy. It will hold you back if you believe that good looking face matters even a little bit.
You’ve detailed the central struggle in this discussion. There are some people who don’t have (and don’t want) the ability to choose their beliefs. No matter how practical it is to believe that looks don’t matter, they want to know the truth. To them truth is not merely a practical convenience.
This difference in approach is too deep to be bridged by a logical discussion.
The emotional thinkers can frustrate the logical thinkers, who are flummoxed as to why the emotional thinkers refuse to make logical connections.
Rollo made a post today where he laments the society wide brain washing of men to take on the feminine imperative. He points out that men refuse to hear the truth, and dissimulate like women when faced with logic and science. People within the matrix will fight taking the red pill.
Within the manosphere we also find the same habits of mind. Emotional thinking that avoids facing ideas that threaten ego protecting views.
One such religious view common in the manosphere is that all attractive traits boil down to nothing other than confidence. For instance even though scientific studies show that a buff body is in and of itself attractive independently of confidence (as Rollo made a post about), the religion is that this is so because the buff body makes the man confident. And on and on – the RSD Nation dogma is a religion, and talking about it logically is met with heavy resistance and all the dissimulation you’d expect from women.
When people openly tell you that it’s better to believe that being handsome doesn’t matter because that will raise your confidence, that’s exactly the same mental process that is lamented in Rollos post; people choose what to believe based on what is comfortable.
There are two mental strategies to take.
1) Emotional thinking to boost confidence short term.
2) Fitting all data into a congruent whole in order to maximize the ability to form accurate and realistic strategies.
Number two requires more mental processing power, and a greater faith in the power of truth. Number two is an ability not usually available to women. The choice is yours.
Obstinance Works said
Irrational self confidence has been proven to improve performance outcomes. You have to wear down women sometimes in order to fuck them. I think you know more on the subject in general but I believe confidence rules the moment.
xsplat said
There is nothing incompatible with knowing that confidence helps and knowing what other than confidence also helps.
If confidence is helping, it’s not irrational at all, is it? It’s tautological that effective confidence is rational and appropriate. The correct description is not irrational confidence, it is high confidence.
Confidence is exactly as effective as it is. No more, no less. It doesn’t become more effective by overestimating how effective it is. That is logically impossible.
It still amazes me that when I mention that things other than confidence are also attractive, and that attractive traits are additive, the members of the cult of confidence hear me as saying that confidence is not effective.
It’s as if these plain as your nose incontrovertible logical connections simply CAN NOT BE MADE by the cult members. They literally can not hear what I’m saying. Nya nya nya! I can’t hear you!
Vicomte said
I’m pretty enough to agree with you.
xsplat said
More about this notion of irrational self confidence being more effective than rational self confidence:
An accurate mental map is the most effective mental map. Knowing exactly how effective confidence is and displaying exactly the right amount and knowing exactly what else will help you in the situation is the best you can do. You can’t do better by overestimating yourself or the value of confidence. You can only do exactly as well as you actually really can do. And if you can’t know your chances with a girl and how confident you have a right to be, then it’s perfectly rational to display high confidence.
But it’s still best to be able to read her signals accurately and to have a realistic mental map of what is effective in order to make reality based strategic decisions and to plan your life and lifestyle accordingly.
It does not help to be wrong.
And you can be cognizant of all your faults and still go ahead and bluff and take your best shot. Better yet develop an inner confidence that you know you actually deserve.
I’m an advocate for rational reality based confidence, and in cases where that doesn’t exist, for plain old fashioned bluffing.
Basically what many men in the manosphere are saying is this “Let’s all give each other deliberately incorrect information, because it will help us.”
Think of when women do the same, and how it negatively affects their SMV. Women are all about being emotionally supportive to each other about how confident they should be, and sit around feeling entitled to be fat. You go girl!
Dom said
Complete objectivity (at least as close to it as a human can get) is far more empowering than conscious self-induced delusions.
Emotions aren’t designed to direct life; they’re designed to be the rewards of life.
Retrenched said
I see your point, I think. But the problem I have with this line of thinking is that, if taken to its logical conclusion, it provides no solution for the guys who are not already succeeding with women.
To put it another way, if a guy’s struggling through a dry spell, then how can be rationally confident in his ability to succeed with women without the supporting evidence? The key evidence, his track record, suggests that he doesn’t have what women want. So at that point, any confidence he might have with women must by definition be irrational, at least until he starts having actual success.
But I’m guessing that by your definition such confidence wouldn’t be irrational if it led to the guy getting tangible results. (Please correct me if I’m wrong.)
xsplat said
“The key evidence, his track record, suggests that he doesn’t have what women want. So at that point, any confidence he might have with women must by definition be irrational, at least until he starts having actual success. ”
I see your point.
However, knowing that confidence is attractive, and hearing from other men about their successes, and seeing pictures of average looking men with hot girlfriends can all give one reasons to believe that one has a good shot.
There is also the evidence that shows that other people can’t tell how nervous a person is feeling on the inside. When nervous we think we are broadcasting obvious signals, and that this perception by others of our being nervous will lead to failure, however evidence shows that this is largely erroneous. We can fake it until we make it because people can’t read our minds.
The reason I’m making this fine distinction between rational and irrational confidence is not just to be picky about semantics. The frame of reference that sees all attractive traits as boiling down to nothing other than confidence can lead to gross errors in lifestyle strategy, where men neglect to work on areas of attraction that are not all about confidence, such as going to the gym, their wardrobe, their finances, their location, their social connections, and their access to meeting women in situations where they have relatively high social status. Choosing to use a trick of self hypnosis is choosing to deny portions of reality, in order to get a temporary advantage. Self hypnosis is powerful and effective, but the reason it works is because you are lying to yourself. It’s not the best solution in the long term.
Rather than feeling inadequate deep down and compensate by feeling overconfident, a person can use this mental trick: realize that they don’t yet realize just how much confidence they have a right to have. Realize that due to lack of experience they don’t yet know just how money they actually are. This realization can be based on a realistic assessment of objective reality, gained from learning from what other men have accomplished given relatively the same resources of attraction (such as ugly short shy men who eventually learned some dating success). It’s almost exactly the same mental trick – deciding that you have a right to be more confident than experience has so far shown you. The only difference is that with this technique you are leaving yourself open to all information, rather than shutting out some information (such as that looks help) in order to boost confidence.
It’s not an academic exercise – men’s lives are at stake.
Retrenched said
Okay, I think I understand where you’re coming from now.
I agree that confidence, while important, is quite overrated in this corner of the internets. Confidence helps, indeed I think it’s essential, but that alone won’t help a man reach his potential.
If a guy’s 50 pounds overweight confidence will probably help, but not nearly as much as hitting the gym will.
If a guy has bad teeth confidence will probably help, but not nearly as much as a trip to the dentist will.
If a guy’s socially awkward confidence will probably help, but not nearly as much as joining toastmasters, or getting therapy, or doing whatever he needs to do to address his social awkwardness will.
etc.
TL DR: a guy needs confidence to score, but he needs more than that if he wants to score with the best women he can get.
xsplat said
Very well said.
Krauserpua.com has this to say:
“High value women do not sleep with low value men.
It’s easy to forget this. Most of the guys you see bragging on internet forums about getting laid are not providing photos. If they did you’d be rather unimpressed. Many of the guys producing flashy moves in the street or in the bar do not actually bang the girls. Even the big names – they aren’t getting laid as much or as with as high quality as they’d like you to believe. Certainly the ones I’ve met aren’t.
Believing the hype encourages you to believe a central misdirection in Game that what you do in set is important.
Yes, competent execution of the model is important but it is nowhere near as important as being a high value man. My personal metaphor is of a sports car. Imagine you want to win Le Mans 24 Hour. So you take your car onto the racetrack several times a week and hone your driving skills. You spend your evenings on race simulators and make some trips to the Le Mans circuit to drive the real track and research the brake distances and racing lines. After a while you’ll be a great driver and know exactly how to drive the track in an optimal manner.
Then you show up one June weekend for the race. With your Ford Focus. And wonder what sticking point stopped you winning the race.”
doclove said
Xsplat
Your article and follow up commentary is brilliant and I wish more men would heed your advice. You need to be able to do well on fronts not just one. Assanova said as much when he had a blog. He was right then, and you’re right now. Men, you need to work on everything.
CallistoRising said
Let’s try and condense it a little. Let’s say “be irrationally confident until the point that your confidence would be rational” with the caveat that one would do well to have a meaningful pursuit (e.g. highflying businessman or artist) that improves status and keep tabs on appearance/fitness, etc. Such things add momentum toward the rationality of your confidence.
xsplat said
That sounds good, however the sticking point some people are having is not knowing what things to develop that would lead to rational self confidence. They don’t know this because they refuse to acknowledge that anything other than confidence is attractive.
So they are in the short term setting themselves up for success, with high confidence, but in the long term setting themselves up for failure, by denying the reality of other things that women do find attractive.
Anonymous said
I’ve been too busy dating multiple women to work out for the past six weeks. Dating takes away from workout time. I’ve probably taken a bit hit looks wise. But the confidence from dating the various women must have more than made up for any shortcoming on the looks side.