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Archive for the ‘MGTOW’ Category

Are you searching for freedom, or just being an ascetic prude?

Posted by xsplat on July 25, 2013

the-buddha-gave-up-on-being-an-ascetic

Buddha later realized he had been doing it wrong.

happy-fat-buddha

Doing it right

There is no such thing as freedom. As soon as you define it, you’ll immediately see that it’s a ridiculous concept and an impossibility to attain.

Many of us have had long periods where just being alive was mentally painful, in so many ways, and we struggled to get out from that state. We turned to every possible avenue.

Some of us had turned to meditation and philosophy and a community of like minded seekers. And for some of us that worked, and the pain and suffering diminished and it was good to be alive most of the time, sometimes great to be alive for long stretches of time.

Some of us turned to increasing our social wellbeing, and found that that worked, even when all meditation tricks did not.

Some of us turned to financial wellbeing, and found that that worked, even when all meditative and social avenues of exploration did not work, and found happiness and peace then.

Some of us turned to being in mutual love, and found that worked immensely well, even when meditative discipline and an active positive social life and financial wealth did not bring us nearly as much steady contentment, joy, and bliss.

But there is no such thing as freedom. Happiness is still relative; existence is still fundamentally conditioned.  Subjectively and objectively you have to do A to feel B, and external situation C will make you feel D.  It is a fools goal to seek unconditioned freedom.

Awareness can contextualize the ego, such that ego and desire still happens, but that’s a relatively minor part of what happens. One word for that is vipassana, which has been roughly translated as spacial awareness, or insight. Using words to talk about it breaks down and becomes gibberish, because we need subject/object distinctions in language, but the contextual wider awareness is on both sides of the fence at once.

Having that experience of prajna, or vipassana, is rare and occurs usually in peak life experiences or to a small portion of the most advanced meditators, and it can be argued that it either never happens as a continual stable experience, or that if it does it happens as a stable experience to an extremely minor population of an extremely minor population. Work at it your whole life with full dedication and it’s still extremely unlikely that you will have a stable strong post meditative experience.

On the other hand I did have some moments of weeks and months where my experience was flavored with non-dual wakefulness that was wider than ego and knew “itself” to be so, and some periods of near 24 hour awareness, through into dreams and the deep dreamless state. And there are many discussions of people regularly experiencing “samadhi”, or the witness state without the subject/object narrative happening at all (and I’ve experienced that too, as I now dimly recall).

It’s been said that even for those who do stably rest in the witness state, that their thoughts and ego don’t get in line with that perspective for decades later, if ever. Basically our normal self just gets contextualized. The same rules and regulations of emotions that we had before continue on as before. What we like and don’t like stays the same, and our emotions are just as contextual as before; songs and life events affect “us” emotionally. We get angry, irritated, happy, sad. It’s just that awareness can contextualize it to a degree such that this is only a relatively minor part of awareness. It gets silly to call our “self” this narrative story we used to call our self.

But again, such a witness state is very rare for people to stabilize in, and it’s usually only the most advanced in a very large community of dedicated meditators who get much of an experience of that. And even then without constant dedicated re-grooming of neurons with mindfulness training, such experiences fade.

What does seem to last however is being less bothered by things – it’s no tragedy if an emotion happens. You already get into the habit of knowing it doesn’t much matter if you are happy or sad, and allow yourself to be that. In a strange way the new type of emotional regulation is to not regulate.

Talking about that is considered by some to be unskillful, because you have to first go through the stages and steps. It’s not really the same thing to have uncontrolled rage as it is to accept your strong emotions as they arise with nuanced control and finesse, like a surfer riding an enormous Maui killer wave.

It’s not skillful to tell beginner meditators to not alter their thinking process. But advanced meditators kind of do just that. Sounds paradoxical, so it’s almost better not to talk much about it. But this is why beginning meditators emphasize concentration first, or shamata, and then later raise their gaze and emphasize resting their mind in wide spacial awareness without altering, or vipassana. The not too tight not too loose balance takes time and physical neuron connections to grow into, and those neuron connections will degrade without regular reinforcement through deliberate mindfulness/awareness training, and besides, the shift in attention to a non-dual perspective is elusive for the vast majority of people, and even those that do sometimes get that shift can lose it and not be able to get it back, seemingly no matter what they do.

But the whole reason I am talking about these things isn’t to get into esoteric Buddhist philosophy or to discuss subtle aspects of meditation, it’s to discourage people from using asceticism as an excuse to not put in the effort to get laid.

In every school of Buddhism, the ascetic outlook is specifically frowned upon. Despite the fact that Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is the hallmark and stamp of the religiously fervent in all traditions, avoiding desire and pleasure for the sake of it is NOT a Buddhist attitude. So, MGTOWers, stop using that holier than thou approach – the Buddha thinks your an idiot for your ascetic self denial in the name of ascetic self denial.

You are not a more free person for “not being ruled by your penis”. You are just an ascetic prude.

You don’t have to make it through to the most advanced stages of meditative awareness to be able to sacrifice and work hard for a cookie, to enjoy the anticipation of a cookie, and to enjoy the delicious crunchy chocolaty goodness. The same for sex. There is nothing holy in self denial. It’s just living life wrong like a stupid idiot.

Posted in MGTOW, Uncategorized | 5 Comments »

Why the Buddha was wrong. Desire is not the origin of suffering.

Posted by xsplat on July 21, 2013

I’ve heard some of the most senior Buddhist teachers and lineage holders of the highest rank say:

1) There is no such thing as Nirvana
2) Cessation of suffering is not possible
3) There is no problem with passion and desire

To explain why these respected high ranking teachers and lineage holders are still considered by their peers to be Buddhists will be complicated. It’s an esoteric subject.

But when it comes down to it, you don’t really even need to go through all the esoteric teaching it takes to reach the subtle views that can be summarized that way. Common sense really is pretty close enough to the mark.

Common sense is this:
We need to see the big picture of what we desire and go after it strategically, and weigh up all the costs and benefits, and decide which cookies are overall helpful, and which cookies are not. There are many ways in which we find happiness. We enjoy sensory pleasures, we enjoy giving to others, we enjoy ego stroking and status, we enjoy oxytocin and dopamine rushes, we enjoy quiet solitude and roller coaster rides. Maximizing happiness can take many flavors, however there are equally many ways to fuck up our strategies and get tunnel vision and take strategies that clearly do not give us the best possible OVERALL happiness. Heroin is not the way to go. Sitting in a box meditating full time is not the way to go. Happiness is about a well rounded strategy that approaches many different ways of being happy.

But if you are interested in Buddhist philosophy, I’ll explain why the 4 noble truths are overly simplistic, and how it’s actually best to simply consider them to be wrong.

In some Buddhist traditions, for instance Tibetan Buddhism, it is taught that there are 3 main schools of Buddhism; Hineyana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana. Hineyana Buddhists concern themselves mostly with the Vinaya rules of moral conduct, and mindfulness. Mahayana Buddhists also emphasize compassionate embrace and seeing all aspects of mind and the world as lacking in narrative in their essence – or emptiness. Vajrayana Buddhists use some tricks to embrace emotions as they arise with clarity.

It’s been said that although it appears that there is direct contradiction between the Vajrayana approach of embracing anger and genuinely being angry and acting on anger and the Hineyana approach of dissassociating from negative emotions, that fundamentally there is no contradiction.

Actually, that’s bullshit. There IS contradiction. It’s just that you can’t get to a Vajrayana attitude without starting from a Hineyana one. You need to learn to regulate your emotions before you can see their nature clearly and use them effectively.

It all gets very subtle and esoteric.

Hindus talk about Atman, or your true Self, and say that “you are that”. Buddhists talk about suchness, or tatagata, and say that the nature of mind has no self. On the face of it they are saying the exact opposite, and yet it’s also been said that they are saying the exact same thing. It takes a lot of meditation and study to know why they are saying the same thing. Every thought movement you have is you. It is Buddha mind. When taught to meditate, you are taught to not push away thoughts – if you have a desire, don’t stop it – don’t push it away – just notice it. You start by dis-identifying with it. By noticing it, it is no longer you. But later your awareness becomes more encompassing and it makes just as much sense to say that everything that occurs is you. The keyboard is you. The couch is you. Your desire is you. It is all Self. There is no Self. It’s saying the same thing, strangely.

But you don’t really need to know all that. No matter how deep your meditative experience becomes or how regularly you practice or how profound is your philosophical understanding, common sense is still basically good enough. Because as the renowned Shunryu Suzuki said, karma never stops. There is no cessation of karma. You will never stop having desires, and you will never stop having suffering. That does not happen.

Even trying to make that happen is foolish, and yes, that’s a very Buddhist point of view. The attempt at stopping suffering is impossible and foolish, according to Buddhism. You can’t eliminate desire, and the very effort to do so is counter productive.

You can transcend ego, but chances are that the experience will be temporary. And regardless if you do, desires still arise. Your frame of reference will shift, and you won’t identify with the desires completely, but the desires will still arise. Karma will still happen. The game will still be the game.

Remember the ox herding pictures. At first the meditator goes into the forest, but in the end he just goes back to the marketplace. In the end he just laughs and plays and fucks and looks just like anyone else. In the end common sense is good enough.

Maximize your overall happiness, because that game never stops.

Posted in MGTOW, Sex Chikung & Kundalini | 24 Comments »

MGTOW guys are OFTEN puritans who have a fucked up relationship to enjoying a good life

Posted by xsplat on July 20, 2013

The big picture is that people want to be happy, and that the big picture is exactly this and none other than this “we have to see the bigger picture and use all our faculties to maximize pleasure for the long term.”

This means that we agree that there are many different avenues and ways that our competing internal interests find happiness and satisfaction. We want cookies, and we want to look good in the mirror. We want to be rich in cookies, and we get pleasure from sharing cookies. Therefore we need strategies to take into account all these competing interests, and find the best strategic balance. Eat not too many cookies, AND not too little cookies. In order to maximize happiness we have to also indulge in just the right amount of cookies. The desire for cookies and the enjoyment of cookies is a GOOD thing that increases life satisfaction.

We make sacrifices so that we can earn the money to pay for the cookies, just like we make sacrifices so that we can fuck. That’s nothing to do with being a dancing monkey for our desires, or a being a dancing monkey for cookies, it’s about good life strategy for leading a good fulfilling human life.

As has been mentioned, there is no cohesive MGTOW set of values, however when I make sweeping generalizations such as “MGTOWs are puritans at war with their own desires”, I do it for a reason. Regardless of what any standardized MGTOW philosophy is makes no bearing on my statement. Guys who take the view mentioned in the first sentence of my last MGTOW hit job post, the view that seeking sex is making oneself into a dancing monkey and being under the thumb of uncontrolled desires have a FUCKED UP FRAME OF REFERENCE OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE ALIVE AS A HUMAN BEING. That’s pretty important. The puritan attitude of not indulging becomes an obsession with control, and all of the important values of life get turned exactly on their heads.

MGTOW guys, regardless of MGTOW philosophy, often espouse this puritan fucked up view, and are LIVING LIFE WRONG. It’s not just about seeking sex or not. It’s the very relationship to desire that is fucked up.

People who read that MGTOW article got confused as to what it was about, and I’ll remind them now; it was about the first sentence:

I’ve never really groked the MGTOW stance that working to raise SMV and be good at seduction is working to be a dancing monkey in the service of pussy.

Which brings us back to:

“But we don’t postpone eating the cookie for the sake of not eating cookies – we postpone eating it so that we can later eat more cookies.”

Some people get so used to the idea of postponing pleasure for the sake of a better future, that they start to mistake the very act of not indulging with a good life strategy, in and of itself.

That’s fucked up.

Just like postponing reward indefinitely, into some non existent afterlife is fucked up.

Back again to the fundamental principles – suffering and happiness. Without these principles there is no MEANING in life, what so ever. There is no basis for ethics. There is nothing but robotic, nihilistic calculation. Without including our subjective wellbeing, we are just atoms bouncing around, and that means nothing. Meaning means something because it matters to someone – it’s subjective. We need pleasure and pain as the basis of any philosophy.

And so there is only one conclusion. Maximizing overall pleasure and avoiding overall pain.

The fact that guys who identify as MGTOW wanted to read that blog post as being about whether or not the pursuit of sex is or is not the only avenue towards happiness points to how invested their egos are in protecting themselves from being seen as lesser beings for avoiding the pursuit of sex. Reread that first sentence if you still find yourself wanting to frame the argument that way.

I’ve never really groked the MGTOW stance that working to raise SMV and be good at seduction is working to be a dancing monkey in the service of pussy.

The point I’m making is of fundamental importance.

Posted in MGTOW, Uncategorized | 13 Comments »

MGTOWs are puritans at war with their own desires

Posted by xsplat on July 18, 2013

I’ve never really groked the MGTOW stance that working to raise SMV and be good at seduction is working to be a dancing monkey in the service of pussy. I figure the guys who espouse that meme either have very low libido and so can not understand how men are motivated by a desire to fuck, or dislike their inner desires; they wish they didn’t wish to fuck.

I want sex therefore I do what is required to get sex. Does that mean that I am dancing monkey for pussy? That I am a dancing monkey for my own desires? Or does it mean that *I* know what *I* want, and I go after it, directly, with no excuses. Without neurotic complaint or double think – just directly go after what I actually want, pragmatically. And enjoy doing it, and feel better for the process and the result.

How many bifurcations and segments do you want to divide your “self” into? Me vs “my” body. Me vs id, superego and ego. Me vs my sex drive. Why not just have me? A holistic integral self? Why the need for all these divisions? Own it. Yes, you want to get fucked, and yes, there are risks and costs and rewards for doing so – it’s an imperfect world and some part of your “self” will have to be compromised so that another part gets it’s flavor of satisfaction.

Try to figure that out – comment here if it will help you. You ARE your desires. You are not at war with them. All of you is you. ALL of it – all the contradictory mess – it’s all you. Desire is as good as it gets, just like satiation is as good as it gets, just like fun is as good as it gets. Being human isn’t a struggle against being human. It’s a balancing act of competing internal and external interests, and desire is a good interest, and is good and valuable in and of itself – it is to be celebrated as much as a great guitar lick or a sunset or a warm embrace or an early morning stroll in the park. Desire and everything involved in fulfilling desire is good – as good as it gets. It’s you. It’s not you vs desire.

You can stroke your ego and that’s GOOD. You can transcend your ego and that’s another type of good. You can get laid and that’s good. You can go skiing or live as a beach bum and that’s good. But it’s not good to be puritanical about sex and deny it as something that makes us slaves to our desires. It has cost/benefits, like anything else. If you set it up well, the benefits greatly outweigh the costs, and BOTH your desire and the satisfying of the desires are good. Desire is not bad. It’s not you vs your desire. Own it – you ARE your desire. That’s you.

Update: Enjoying life as best as possible is the highest possible philosophical and ethical position. The buck has to stop somewhere – it must stop at the individual in his lifetime – otherwise he is just teaching everyone around him by example to NOT enjoy life, which is unethical and a boring drag and a waste of precious human birth.

Not causing suffering to others is considered ethical, but that doesn’t go as far as it can. Alleviating suffering in others is considered even more ethical. But that’s not going far enough. Promoting pleasure in oneself and others is yet more ethical.

Or if enjoyment is not your fundamental principle of life, what is? Raising GDP?

Yes, we have to see the bigger picture and use all our faculties to maximize pleasure for the long term. But we don’t postpone eating the cookie for the sake of not eating cookies – we postpone eating it so that we can later eat more cookies.

Life is about eating cookies, not postponement. It’s about maximizing our position to sustainably enjoy as much pleasure as possible.

Posted in MGTOW, Uncategorized | 25 Comments »

Outwitting women by using our emotions as tools

Posted by xsplat on November 9, 2012

Dillon: I don’t think MGTOW avoid intimacy. They simply cannot find intimacy on the terms they are looking for so they have given up. (So have many women). One cannot go on strike if one isn’t even employed. Involuntary MGTOW is actually men sent their own way.

Unfortunate really.

I just woke up from a dream, in which I was dealing with my BPD ex-wife, only now as a more mature man with more psychological capability to deal with a nutbar like that while still maintaining hand and not getting flustered.

My young self would have been best advised to GMOW and avoid her, as she was a bad risk/reward.

And on waking I reflected on how dealing with women in general can be like that. The learning curve is steep. We learn by mistakes, as well as successes, and the mistakes can be painful and costly. Becoming a person who can maintain hand and enjoy dealing with women is a process that includes a lot of getting fucked over. And the process is never complete.

I like the approach of the PUAs. They define a problem, break it down into manageable parts, and then address each part one by one to find a workable solution. Whereas I can understand that sometimes we are not in a mental, emotional, or financial position deal with women, who are all at least a little bit BPD, at the very least I see no reason why a person who is better off avoiding them won’t just set them aside for now with the thought that when they are older and more all around capable they might be up to the task. Or if not that realize that some OTHER men are up to the task.

But the MGTOW crowd there band together into a support group and re-enforce each others beliefs as a religion. That these beliefs are grounded in facts only solidifies them as set in concrete rigid, and prevents them from looking for a workaround and adapting successfully.

Anyone who has read much of my blog will see many themes that MGTOW crowd talk about brought up. Only here I approach it not from a “don’t women suck, let’s avoid them” position, but from a “here are my experiences, and here’s how I found I could deal with it” approach. For every insurmountable problem the MGTOW found, I found a workable solution.

But that confounds and irritates them, to the point where they become apoplectic. There are no solutions! Only MGTOW is a solution! The first, last, final and only real solution!

It’s religious.

The MGTOW solution would have been a good one for my young self attempting a marriage to a hostile wife. Naturally at that age I was incompetent and inexperienced and not yet wise enough in the ways of the world to be able to deal with manipulative women while maintaining the upper hand and composure.

But yet if I’d gone that route, there is no possibility I’d have ever learned the skills that I now practice.

I don’t know if it’s like this for all men, but for me the mental re-organization could not have come about without some profound and destabilizing shifts. The process included horrendous heartbreaks and one full out nervous breakdown. Hell of a learning curve.

My ex drove me to have a nervous breakdown, twenty years ago. I wasn’t capable against her. Whereas nowadays I’d never let myself be drawn into that level of bullshit to begin with. Instead of getting drawn into her dramas I’d treat her like a child, only with much more skill than your average parent. My current self has a whole different set of power-tools for dealing with manipulative psycho chicks. And yes, one of those tools is simply avoiding them.

But how did I get to this point of greater facility? They didn’t teach this stuff in my high school. “Maintaining hand over a BPD, 551″. I had to learn the hard way, through trial and effort, consulting a community of peers and sharing experiences and tips, and using that newly organized information to try again. And again. And so through time and experience and many failures learn how to deal with women in a way that creates enjoyment and satisfaction.

I’m not claiming there is no more drama now, or that the pleasures of women ever becomes entirely cost free. But it is plainly obvious to me that the mountain of advantages of a lifestyle that includes a loving and attentively doting hot and sexy early twenties something girl far outweigh the little piles of scum of the downsides.

Learning to be at that level of skill where a guy can attract and maintain attraction of a hot girl with options and keep her hypnotically under his spell while at the same time refusing to marry her or concede to any of her nest building and baby making instincts is a very, very complicated challenge. Not to be underestimated. A challenge worthy of the brightest and most socially capable among us. Women are masters at manipulating and controlling men. But after time, the capable man can turn the tables and out puppet the puppet master. Even while loving and fucking them.

Can you imagine that? Using your own emotions of feeling loving and bonding IN ORDER to at the same time manipulate another girls feelings? That’s some pretty high level stuff, right? You’d need an extremely fine level of emotional control and a strong sense of personal boundaries to not lose at that game! What kind of life experiences would a man have to go through to be able to learn to do that? To be able to approach emotions as if he were crafting and singing a song – with both detachment and embodied involvement at the same time?

Most men have never even considered the possibility of using their own emotions as a tool. They think emotions are what happens to them. Or that emotions are problematic and to be avoided. Instead we can harness them and play songs with them, and use those songs to manipulate the emotions of those around us. Fall a little bit in love so that others around us fall head over heels.

I realize that nowadays most guys feel that outright manipulation is somehow sick; that it’s not something they want to do. They don’t WANT to have hand in a relationship! They just want to be themselves and be accepted for who they are.

That’s of course a naive and childish view. This real world is a world of unspoken social hierarchy and command. Especially when dealing with women. In order to be effective at dealing with them, there is no option but to know the rules of the game that they play by. To know how they think. They don’t think like men do – not even like men with femininized brains do. It may be painful to contemplate their sick, sick ways, however that’s the only option if one wants to have any facility at all, let alone a winning skill. You play the game by the rules available – you win at their own game of manipulation, only you take it up twelve notches to a whole new level of game that they can’t even comprehend, using all your masculine powers of integration of facts into a big colossal integrated world view to attack them on multiple fronts to manipulate them to feel anything you want them to feel, and do anything you want them to do. Including feeling devotedly in love and acting doting every day in every way.

I don’t want to convert any MGTOWs into a different approach. But I’d be happy if some at least considered that success with women is an option for high aptitude men who devote the time and attention to practice it.

Posted in MGTOW, Uncategorized | 8 Comments »

MGTOW smackdown, part 4

Posted by xsplat on November 9, 2012

Mike ash wrote a thoughtful reply to the discussion sparked by this thread on the MGTOW forum.

I’m dragging my reply out from the comments section of MGTOW part 2, as this is my first introduction to western grass eaters; I never knew that people like this existed. This isn’t just a movement or a philosophy or approach to women, this is, apparently, also a body type and mental type of human. A group of guys with a similar psycho-somatic gestalt. The pudgy low testosterone grass eaters who advocate to others to avoid sex.

xsplat: “The MGTOW crowd seem to have intimacy avoidance issues, and view normal human emotions and psychological requirements as pathological.”

Mike: You do realize there is more to intimacy than sex, right? One size does not fit all. What works great for you, works because it’s what is important to you.

I have been married, had long term relationships, short term relationships, and am a father to a great daughter. I understand the attraction, and people feeling like they need to “have someone in their life”. What I also realize, is that intimacy and relationships are not dependent on sex. I love having dinner with my parents, catching up on what they’ve been up to. I love planning an afternoon to catch up with my daughter who is busy with work and college. I love going on day long motorcycle rides with friends, followed by dinner and great conversation until the wee hours of the morning. You see, I experience “normal human emotions and psychological requirements” too.

Lack of sex has nothing to do with lack or avoidance of intimacy. My most fulfilling roles in life and relationships have nothing to do with my libido.

I wasn’t commenting on the very notion of mgtow, I was commenting on the specific comments on that thread in the mgtow forum and what they imply about the commentors there. In those comments many expressed the idea that other people having sex was foolish, and worse. Comments like “I wouldn’t trust that guy around my dog with the amount of hormones flowing through him”. A distrust of sex way past any reasonableness to a pathological extreme.

So on that forum, with those guys, you aren’t even men going your own way. You are men disgusted by and afraid of and averse to ANYONE having sex. Never mind just guys minding their own business and doing their own thing.

And it’s one thing to enjoy occasional companionship, and quite another to enjoy intimate sexual bonding. The two types of relationship are not two types of the same thing – they are in different categories. Both sexual and non-sexual share some attributes, and relations to kids can be very bonded, but sexual relationships give unique challenges and rewards. If it’s not true for you that you have relationship avoidance, is it fair to say you have sexual-relationship avoidance?

Maybe you are different than most of the posters in that thread, but I don’t hear a take it or leave it attitude at all. I hear a “everyone is very stupid and fucked up unless they leave it” attitude towards sex. A profound disinterest AND a profound aversion.

It’s one thing to make a calculated decision to avoid risk. Women can be dangerous. But it’s quite another to have an intense negative reaction to people showing a safe and effective and pleasurable way to avoid most of the risk of dealing with women, while enjoying their rewards. And it’s another thing again to deny that there even are any rewards. But your crowd does more than just deny the possibility of successfully navigating the minefield of difficulties with women and living a more rewarded life, you go several steps further, and express that the very attempt is stupid and yes, pathological. You think it’s sick to even try.

Do you agree that if test levels were taken that most of the posters would likely score EXTREMELY low? Do you agree that the average discourse on that thread is vulgar and immature and trollish? That most comments show a feminine emotional thinking style?

Honestly, judging by those comments, I don’t see a bunch of guys making a personal lifestyle choice. I see a bunch of guys with something wrong with them. Wrong not just sexually, but in attitude and emotions and clarity of thinking. It reads like little girls are chatting in there. It is frankly shocking.

And while you may have been there and done that, the general tone of the comments is a complete lack of empathy with the human sexual condition. As if guys there are pre-pubescent. You guys are shocked and amazed that men would have and want love and sex with women. If that is not broken it is at the minimum a sign of being sexually developmentally impaired.

And the fact that the attitude there is that it is inconceivable to successfully date women is again a sign of social ineptness. But not just an internal ineptness, an ineptness that you project out to the entire of humanity.

And would you agree with the conclusion that I take away from the fact that many posters there find deliberate male dominance in relationship to be off-putting to be sign that the posters there are clueless about innate female/male sexual and social dynamics? Social retards, in other words?

And as none of the posters there have rebutted a single one of my points, nor even acknowledged any of them, but have instead universally responded with snark and eye rolling and ad hominem, I would not expect an answer to any of my questions here. There is an apparent inability to think with a direct, masculine, logical style by you guys.

Update: Credit to Mr. Wombat, who made this honest and introspective comment on the forum:

xsplat: I’d be very interested in seeing photos of the members. I imagine them a bit pudgy and man breasted, lacking in any signs of testosterone, and I imagine the friends they surround themselves with to be similar.

MrWombat: Meh – guilty. Maybe he’s right, which raises a whole host of other questions. What is life about, if it’s nothing but which chemicals happen to be running through your brain?

Posted in MGTOW, Uncategorized | 14 Comments »

Are male infants being poisoned with emasculating environmental hormones, killing their sexual chances?

Posted by xsplat on November 8, 2012

Wudang: Have you read about the grass eaters and herbivores of Japan? Apparently there are huge numbers of them.

I’ve heard about them.

After spending several years socializing on mens forums that are geared towards understanding women, seduction, and positive masculinity, being introduced to the attitudes of the group at the mgtowforums was a bit unnerving. I’m still a bit freaked out.

The culture over at the rooshvforum is one of strong personal responsibility for outcomes – if anything they take it a bit too extreme and some go so far as to downplay the effects of looks or money or race. But generally it’s a positive spin – to take charge and make your own world, with no excuses. And generally the culture there is also one that avoids using snark as argument, and has a good level of intellectual rigor.

But the western grasseaters at the mgtow forum give me a wholly different impression. I can’t know how accurate the impressions are. All I have to work on is the comments there: http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/mens-general-discussion/11725-5-days-impotence-2.html. But the impressions I’m getting is not just of men with certain beliefs and ego protections and lifestyle strategies, but with certain styles of thinking that are VERY feminine. Using eye rolling as argument, for instance. Making comments such as quoting me and then following it with “Too rich to comment.” Using ad hominem as argument.

I’m unnerved and freaked out by them because maybe for them their reality holds together pretty well. They are relatively sexually anhedonic, and can’t understand why sex and intimacy matter to others. Added together with the clue of their extreme feminine thinking styles, and it points to an extremely emasculated hormonal system. These are going to be guys the least suited to game, and seduction. For them the sexual market place may actually be a pretty hopeless, lost cause. Which again would be an attitude totally at odds with what the culture at rooshvforum would allow. To make a change from that position would require extra-ordinary willpower and dedication, and probably also testosterone replacement therapy along with rigorous excersise and many other major lifestyle changes. But without the testosterone to begin with, where would they find the drive?

Just as testosterone feeds a lifestyle that leads to a feedback loop of growing testosterone, so too does the grass eater lifestyle and attitude feed an estrogen cycle.

And the thinking styles genuinely do point to a low level of testosterone when they were developing in the womb. I’m not just making that up in order to boost my argument through ad hominem. Emotional thinkers are not likely to be able to notice their thinking patterns, but I’m pretty sure most people with stronger reasoning skills who look at their comments can see it. There is a very strong pattern there. From men it’s astounding to have such a concentration of feminine thinking styles. Are tofu and other environmental estrogens fucking up our men, from the very beginnings of their life?

This is all new to me, and is frankly a bit freaky.

Testosterone related news:
A new study finds that a drop in testosterone levels over time is more likely to result from a man’s behavioral and health changes than by aging.

Sleep Loss Dramatically Lowers Testosterone in Healthy Young Men

Testosterone Drops in Dads Sharing Beds With Kids

Brain Sex differentiation: During fetal development, the brain is influenced by sex hormones such as testosterone, estrogens and progesterone

testosterone decline is very often due to obesity and depression.

Testosterone replacement is tricky: Increased testosterone serum levels (what one gets from ‘replacement’ or supplementation) signal the hypothalamus and pituitary glands to essentially clamp down on the body’s production of testosterone precursors. This in turn may trigger atrophy of the testes, since the the number of testosterone producing cells decreases over time. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Regulation for a high level explanation of the process. Suggesting that a way of up-regulating the body’s own production would be preferable to supplementation

A Testosterone Replacement Therapy testimonial:
20 years ago I (ed. the writer of this is not xsplat) was diagnosed with very low testosterone, the primary symptom in my case was osteopenia, low bone density, but not yet to the point of oteoporosis but close. My endocrinologist place me on a daily regimen of testosterone gel, but while the standard dose wasn’t adequate for increasing bone density over a two year period, and my weight was still going up, and ki was not improving my clinical depression (I though I was just a serious person). We doubled the dose and six months later I lost 70 lbs., my BMI had gone from 38 to to 17, and I had as much energy as most men 10 years younger. My work focus improved dramatically, started earning raises and promotions, and my sexual desire was much stronger (eventually leading to a divorce from a woman who just has little to no desire, for me anyway. I’m happy, outgoing, and have a great lady friend who loves me and keeps me satisfied as if we were in our 20s. My cardiologist was freaked out my by numbers, but he felt that the dramatic improvement in my quality of life was well worth the risk. I can’t thank the doctor who first discovered my deficiency and took the initiative to do something about it. Previous doctors just said it was a normal part of aging, but I knew something was wrong. Now all know!

Tips for naturally boosting testosterone:
Muscle building is part of the positive feedback loop. Don’t worry about cardio. Exercise bikes aren’t for men. Weights are. You will get enough cardio from a real lifting program. (I recommend Stronglifts. It’s fast, simple, and it works.) Another part is diet. Stop eating like a woman. Saturated fats and cholesterol promote testosterone production. The last part is psychological. Your moods effect your hormone production, and testosterone is a hormone. Nothing boosts testosterone like winning. Find a competition — some sort of competitive hobby — and work at it until you start winning at it. Winning boosts testosterone and losing dampens it.

On top of it all, it feeds on each other. The diet helps you build muscle. Building muscle builds confidence, which makes winning easier. When you are winning, you start building muscle faster, you are hungrier… on and on.

Another case for supplementation:
Want to know how I found out I had low testosterone? (ed. not xsplat)After following the Tony Horton 10 minute workout for three months, I went to my doctor with chest pains: Turned out I’d strained my pectoral muscle doing a pushup. Thought I was ready to do them from the foot instead of the knees, and was wrong. After three months of intensive exercise, I still couldn’t do normal pushups without injury. I wasn’t one bit stronger than when I started, I’d just finally gained enough determination to push it to the point of injury. (Though I did lose a bit of weight.)

Your advice is probably good for men with marginal testosterone levels; Lose weight, work out, have hot sex, and you’ll get back up to normal levels. For those of us with vanishingly low testosterone, heavy exercise just wears the muscle down, because there’s not enough tet in the system to get any anabolic effect from exercise. For us it’s supplementation, or nothing.

Average men’s testosterone dropping over the generations:
testosterone levels are dropping with each generation and there are countless amounts of environmental estrogens that we’re exposed to daily to blame for this. Whether it’s the estrogen-pumped chickens to produce increased breast growth so those raising them are more profitable, or the water we drink which is contaminated with all the birth control women take, or the produce we eat which is sprayed with pesticides, or the plastics we use every day- we can’t escape it. Now, by simply observing men today one can see a comparative difference between men from the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, but it seems this difference exists in others places- their testosterone levels. There’s actually a long-spanning study that shows how testosterone levels in American men has dropped approx 20 % in 20 years. The study ranged from approx 1980 -2000. Now, testosterone levels drop naturally with age, but this is not what is meant. What is meant by a 20% decrease, and what the study shows is, a 60 yo man in 2000 has, on average, 20% less testosterone than a 60 yo man from 1980.

Documentary about lowering testosterone levels:

The Disappearing Male is about one of the most important, and least publicized, issues facing the human species: the toxic threat to the male reproductive system.

The last few decades have seen steady and dramatic increases in the incidence of boys and young men suffering from genital deformities, low sperm count, sperm abnormalities and testicular cancer.

At the same time, boys are now far more at risk of suffering from ADHD, autism, Tourette’s syndrome, cerebral palsy, and dyslexia.

The Disappearing Male takes a close and disturbing look at what many doctors and researchers now suspect are responsible for many of these problems: a class of common chemicals that are ubiquitous in our world.

Found in everything from shampoo, sunglasses, meat and dairy products, carpet, cosmetics and baby bottles, they are called “hormone mimicking” or “endocrine disrupting” chemicals and they may be starting to damage the most basic building blocks of human development.

BPA and testosterone:
Bisphenol A, known commonly as BPA, is sapping your manliness each and every day. The chemical causes obesity, increased estrogen levels, disrupts the normal operation of the thyroid gland, and causes cancer. This pervasive toxin is found nearly everywhere. Soda cans, shopping receipts, plastic water pipes, bowls, and hundreds of other products contain minute but measurable levels of BPA.

BPA is used in the plastics manufacturing process as a binding agent, mostly in the production of PVC and Polycarbonate. Other types of plastics may also contain this chemical. The layman may be assured that a product contains BPA if the resin identification code, or “recycle number” is three or seven. Items with a resin ID code of one do not contain BPA.

Of particular interest to men is the method by which BPA increases estrogen in the body. Per this article by Robert Rister, BPA causes testosterone levels to INCREASE, causing weight gain. The excess fat converts testosterone into estrogen, triggering breast growth, penis shrinkage, memory loss, and attention span problems. If these were the only ill effects of a single dose of the chemical, then the effects would be short lived and totally reversible. Alas, it is not the case.

BPA disrupts normal thyroid function, making weight loss difficult. The continued exposure to the chemical prolongs thyroid malfunction, penis shrinkage, and the rest of the above effects, gelding men through chemical means. The literate man may read more about the harm BPA does to the thyroid gland in this document from Kyoto University Graduate School of Medicine.

The long term effects of measurable levels of BPA in the human body include several types of cancers, including prostate cancer as stated in this scholarly article by Julian Josephson. This is in addition to the long term effects of obesity.

The man of today is hard pressed to avoid BPA. It is everywhere. Going to the grocery, a man encounters it in the packaging of his food, the microwavable plastic bowl in his frozen dinner, and even the receipt the cashier hands him. If he stops to buy a soda, the almost imperceptible plastic liner in the soda can is leeching BPA, fouling his already unhealthy beverage.

Generally, any hard plastic or polycarbonate contains BPA. This may include baby bottles, but the more reputable manufacturers are offering BPA free products. When in doubt, the involved father is advised to check the product’s label. Manufacturers are aware of the growing concern regarding BPA and will mark a BPA free product accordingly.

Though it is everywhere, the attentive man can reduce his exposure. By using glass or ceramic microwave dishes, abstaining from canned beverages and soups, and buying food with little or no packaging, a man can stop and reverse the cycle of weight gan, penis shrinkage, prostate enlargement, and thyroid malfunction. BPA is a poison! The reader is advised to avoid it as he would arsenic.

Posted in MGTOW, Uncategorized | 7 Comments »

Are there sexual experts? Relationship experts?

Posted by xsplat on November 7, 2012

While the social discourse on your blog is better it doesn’t help you call yourself an expert of sexual practices. How did you figure out you had this expert status btw?

A person can become an expert in any field through study and practice. Expertise can be measured by performance and real world outcomes, and is somewhat subject to validation through a community of like minded peers.

For sexual expertise, a person can look to the community of esoteric daoist sex artists, such as you can find at thetaobums.com. Sexual outcomes of course include a long history being in the top 10 percent of all the scores of lovers partners, plus making girls regularly come and come who had never come before, from virgins all the way up to women who had been with hundreds of men. Relationship outcome can be measured by a long and sustained history of attracting women several points above the man in attractiveness and maintaining happy relationships with them where they show all the signs being deeply in love, including daily devotionals. Bonus expert status if the girls pine for the man for years afterwards. Very high expert status is doing so with multiple girls at the same time. A community of peers for the attraction phase of dealing with women would be the rooshvforum.com, and some there have more in depth knowledge that can be applied to longer term relationships.

I realize that people prefer a more “humble”, egalitarian approach, and proclaiming that there even are experts in the fields of sex and relationship is going to piss guys off. “The nerve!”. But that’s the mindset of the incompetent – not even realizing that there are levels of competence. “We are all equal, just different! Every one has a right to a valid opinion!”

Girls tell me all the time that most men can’t fuck. Most men deeply suck at sex. And relationship too! Not sucking at those two things is going to make a huge difference, in terms of relationship approach and satisfaction.

There are precious few resources for men to learn to not suck at relationships. The funny thing is that this resource that I provide to people, where I explain about using a masculine dominance to maintain hand and attraction in intimate relationships, is maligned as being pathologically controlling by even those who have completely given up on relationships. The doctors cure is too bitter tasting – even for men who show every sign of hating women!

At this time in our history there seems to almost no longer be a community of peers of the old fashioned relationship arts. I know of Athol Kay and Rollo, but few others with long term relationship skills who have put what they know into words. These arts are nearly lost. And worse than lost – our feminized culture now views the masculine arts of household dominance and maintaining a strong, sexually charged, passionate romantic atmosphere as somehow sick and twisted.

Men have desperately lost their way, to the point now that when they confront a viable strategy for having high success with women they see it as aberrant and sick. If there was ever a need for experts, it’s now.

Posted in MGTOW, Uncategorized | 3 Comments »

MGTOW and the socially retarded manboobs of the internet

Posted by xsplat on November 7, 2012

I’m not very familiar with the current thinking in the GTOW crowd, so I’m making my comments based on the few guys I’ve heard from, plus comments here at mgtowforums.com

C’mon, where do you get off judging anyone?

I’m not sure if “judging” people is exactly what I’m doing. You might want to look up attachment in adults and attachment disorder on wikipedia, and see if that resonates at all. I’d be curious.

It is surprising to me that there are men who choose to be asexual, as that strikes me as an anhedonic lifestyle. But the stranger thing to me is how they can’t understand how others would live differently.

I don’t expect to convert anyones beliefs, as this is about emotional satisfaction, however I’m trying to use words to explain to the MGTOW guys why others find their lifestyle as a poor choice for hedonism.

From the Wikipedia article:

Secure attachment
Securely attached people tend to agree with the following statements: “It is relatively easy for me to become emotionally close to others. I am comfortable depending on others and having others depend on me. I don’t worry about being alone or having others not accept me.” This style of attachment usually results from a history of warm and responsive interactions with relationship partners. Securely attached people tend to have positive views of themselves and their partners. They also tend to have positive views of their relationships. Often they report greater satisfaction and adjustment in their relationships than people with other attachment styles. Securely attached people feel comfortable both with intimacy and with independence. Many seek to balance intimacy and independence in their relationship.

Dismissive–avoidant attachment

People with a dismissive style of avoidant attachment tend to agree with these statements: “I am comfortable without close emotional relationships.”, “It is very important to me to feel independent and self-sufficient”, and “I prefer not to depend on others or have others depend on me.” People with this attachment style desire a high level of independence. The desire for independence often appears as an attempt to avoid attachment altogether. They view themselves as self-sufficient and invulnerable to feelings associated with being closely attached to others. They often deny needing close relationships. Some may even view close relationships as relatively unimportant. Not surprisingly, they seek less intimacy with relationship partners, whom they often view less positively than they view themselves. Investigators commonly note the defensive character of this attachment style. People with a dismissive–avoidant attachment style tend to suppress and hide their feelings, and they tend to deal with rejection by distancing themselves from the sources of rejection (i.e., their relationship partners).
———
And by the way, most of the commentors at your forum come across as childish trolls. The level of social discourse over there is miles below what you would see on a PUA forum, such as rooshvforum.com.

Which leads me to believe that the lifestyle choice is not much of a choice at all. You guys are basically socially inept, and so have no clue as to how to get women to be in a stable and meaningful love relationship with you. That the commentors find the idea of male dominance being strange proves my point – you guys have no romantic clue.

Which is fine by me. But the weird part is you can’t imagine that wanting intimacy and sex is anything other than a hindrance to a more “free” life. You simply refuse to let that image of emotional and sexual satisfaction into your head.

While I, on the other hand, nearly became a full time monk, have lived like a monk, and have lived like a hermit.

It’s surprising to me that no one on the forum wants to consider that the reasons they have been unable to find healthy and meaningful and positive relationships with women is because he is doing it wrong. And when a guy like me shows an alternate approach, a “red pill” approach, based on masculine dominance, you guys universally decry it.

I’m working to help guys find pleasure, you are working to help guys avoid pain. But my way also avoids most of the pain.

And I understand all the risks about dealing with women, and talk in detail about how to manage them. You guys just assume that any risk is worth no amount of reward. And what’s worse is you give no clue that you are even capable of perceiving what the rewards of being with loving women can even be.

I’d be very interested in seeing photos of the members. I imagine them a bit pudgy and man breasted, lacking in any signs of testosterone, and I imagine the friends they surround themselves with to be similar. It just never occurred to me that grown men would promote an asexual lifestyle, especially without a very strong meditative reason to focus 100% of all available energies to a purpose. And even then, without some community based religious reason, it strikes me as very odd. Ok – now you can say I’m judging you guys. I think something is wrong with your endocrine systems. And judging by your comments section, many of you don’t show any signs of having a testosteronized brain; you are emotional thinkers with a thinking style similar to women. Not enough testosterone since before birth, and a dramatic lack even now.

I would bet real dollars that your average testosterone level is dramatically low, and I’d also wager your average estrogen levels are noticeably high.

Basically, you guys talk as if you are pre-pubescent and have only the most shallow possible understanding of adult sexual relations. Socio-sexual under-development. And from that stance you claim to be in a position of giving advice to expert practitioners of sex and relationship.

Another case of the incompetent being too incompetent to know that they are incompetent. And then trying to lead.

Posted in Haters, MGTOW, Uncategorized | 19 Comments »

MGTOW guys have intimacy avoidance issues

Posted by xsplat on November 6, 2012

I believe that some people are born with the capacity to develop an organ of perception; the perception of ideas fitting together congruently; the perception of a logical arrangement of thought. And some are not. Some people think emotionally. Women are known to “think” emotionally, and can at times be incapable of following a logical train of thought or seeing where the logical steps break down. Men also can be that way, but women tend to be that way more so and more often.

But some of us naturally and instantly notice logical inconsistencies. We wonder why others can’t see them, and so helpfully point them out.

We are never met with thanks. People not only have difficulty understanding, but it’s much worse. They actively try to not hear. They actively avoid putting together the pictures in their mind that will lead to their having a new, more logically consistent understanding.

That’s how emotional thinking works. And of course even the logical thinkers are prone to cognitive dissonance, but at least with us we have an innate value for truth as a value in and of itself, and so we can be communicated with – even if it’s at times a slow process. We’d rather take the pain of facing cognitive dissonance while adjusting to truth than not feel that pain and avoiding truth.

Sometimes lately I’m noticing myself not starting in on an argument, and not even bothering to correct peoples views, when I see that they are heavily ego invested in them. I know from long experience that when that’s the case logic won’t enter into it, and I’ll be wasting every ones time. The person with the inconsistent views will view me as attacking them, and won’t be able to even imagine alternate views, let alone take them on and integrate them into a new way of being.

I find that MGTOW (men going their own way) guys with a strong bias against intimacy and a strong bias towards being self reliant to the point of being an island onto themselves can be extremely defensive of their emotional stance, and reject the very notion of a positive and fulfilling intimacy – as if on philosophical grounds. They decry “looking for external validation”, or in any way using the people in our environment to find any sort of social or even sexual fulfillment. They deny basic human desires. They worship a LACK of libido. They find freedom in a lack of desire. They see that a less complicated life, where one doesn’t have to struggle for any externally measurable successes is more “free”, rather than seeing a successful life as more fulfilling. They value ease over satisfaction. They take the maxim “be satisfied with little” to absurd extremes, to the point where it is anti-social and anti-human. They avoid pleasures in order to avoid pain. They simplify the funs and joys and heartbreaks of life down to a muted dull grey, and call that “freedom”.

And when they come across the manosphere notion of making oneself as attractive as possible and heightening testosterone and libido and dealing with and manipulating women successfully in order to gain the many associated pleasures, they only see negatives. They CAN NOT even see, let alone remember, what it was ever like to have a woman be head over heels in love with them and treating them well, and CAN NOT comprehend that as a positive value worth striving for, in order to increase quality of life.

Someone from an MGTOW forum started a thread about my last post, 5 Days of Impotence. I was thinking to post some of the comments here and rebut, but some of the comments are distastefully hateful. And it’s the venom in them that made me realize that these guys are not just advocating a lifestyle, they are protecting one. Ego protection.

I used to live a life devoted to lowering testosterone. Yes, it does come with a lot of freedom, and has many benefits.

Now I live a life devoted to raising testosterone. That also comes with many benefits.

I’ve lived and seen both lifestyles intimately. I used to live in a Buddhist monastery, and have lived as a hermit yogi on long solitary forest meditation retreats – up to 3 months at a time. I know what it’s like to live with one meal a day and no masturbation and no entertainments. And I know what it’s like to live in meditation community centers. And to be married with a kid. And to be a travelling salesman. And to travel to new lands as an entrepreneur and have a very socially and sexually active lifestyle.

I valued the time I spent being more self sufficient. Some of it was quite happy, and it was what I wanted to do at the time. However I’d not recommend that as a permanent lifestyle choice.

For the capable man, there are much more difficult roads to navigate. Roads with more stress, and greater challenges, where pain, frustration, and heartbreak are certain. This is the path that focuses on relationships, mutual love, extremely good sex at the very top end level, fitness, financial success, sports interests, musical interests, and an assortment of hobbies that enhance a rounded out full life, including but never limited to meditative and contemplative interests.

The MGTOW crowd seem to have intimacy avoidance issues, and view normal human emotions and psychological requirements as pathological.

Posted in Haters, MGTOW | 46 Comments »

 
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