Random Xpat Rantings

Contemplative dominance for the modern man

Reader asks for advice on girls being afraid of intimacy

Posted by xsplat on April 8, 2014

A reader emails:

I’ve got a bit an issue that I’m hoping you could give me some input on. The subject is something you seem to be very familiar with; women and emotional intimacy.

Basically, girls who become attracted to me also become emotionally afraid of me. The problem isn’t a lack intimacy, but rather the other way around.

A bit about myself:

I know myself. I am unusual in many respects. I consider myself open, honest, and fairly uninhibited, and I’ve been described as such many many times as well, by both men and women.
Just the other day, a female friend said as much, and added that I “can be quite scary like that, because very few are like that to anywhere near the same degree”.

I’m a man of contrasts. I can be raw, crude, and I do have a little bit of a temper, but I am also sensual, playful, and loving.

In poetic terms, I am fire, and I am water. I can heat people up, and burn them if I so desire, but I can just as easily cool them and calm them.
I am also earth and wind; my feet are firmly grounded, but my emotions roam freely if I allow them to do so.

I’m very confident and secure in myself, but I know my shortcomings and weaknesses, and I strive to improve.

I am strong willed, and submission is NOT something I do. The attempts of others to control me invariably fail unless I allow them, such as in work situations.

I’m not afraid of conflict. I’m also not afraid of closeness and intimacy; in fact, I relish it.
I’m also comfortable with revealing my vulnerabilities. Few are the things that I fear in life.

I have an uncanny ability to get people to open up and to tell me their secrets. I don’t even try. It comes naturally. I form connections very easily as well. Today, a girl I’ve known for barely a few weeks, and whom I’ve interacted with for a total of just a few hours, told me she felt as if “we’ve known each other our entire lives”.

The issue:

Many women are attracted to me, both physically and emotionally, but they’re afraid of me, to the degree that very few even dare to show more than polite friendly interest.
Even though many girls want badly to be close with me, they dare not. It’s like they’re preemptively afraid of me leaving them, or that they’re afraid of losing themselves in me. Afraid that things would get too close. I’ve been told things to that effect.

One time in particular, a girl nearly broke down after an intimate moment. She said “I’ve been afraid of you since we met, and now I fear you more than ever”.

I often get insane amounts of last minute resistance. They literally become emotionally distressed, and I’ve been told “I want you so badly but I’m so scared!” several times. One girl in particular, despite my best efforts at calming and comforting her, tensed up so badly that I could barely fit a finger in her. Despite several tries, we never had normal sex. I simply couldn’t fit my penis into her, and it’s not like she was a virgin or had something physically wrong with her vagina.

The ironic thing is that when I do my best to calm girls and comfort them, it seems to make things worse. It’s like they love me while they at the same time don’t dare to.

I’ve been called “heart breaker” by girls who’ve never dared show their interest in me. Even girls I barely know have called me such.

Just recently, I found out that not less than three girls at my old workplace were in love with me. I had flirted with two of them, but they only returned friendly interest.

At one point, there was a temporary consultant that I flirted with, and she reciprocated (though the issues I’ve described above ensued with this girl as well). I went for her, and in the process I broke the hearts of the other three girls. They didn’t dare show that to me, but I’ve been reliably informed that at least one of them was “completely heart broken and very sad”.

There is nothing wrong with any of the girls I set my sights on. They’re normal and healthy. They’re not emotionally damaged or psychologically defective, and yet they react so very strongly to me.

It is frustrating. I feel like an emotional terrorist. I need to change something, but what? I’m missing some important detail.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas?

In my early thirties I mentioned to my buddy that once again a girl I was into told me that she was afraid of intimacy, and this time he took off the gloves and let me have it with “you always say that”. Implying that perhaps it wasn’t that the girls didn’t want intimacy, but that they didn’t want it with ME.

He’d also tell me to be less clingy or into the girl or passionate, and that girls liked it if the man showed an ability to take it or leave it.

And yet I’ve also experienced and it’s been well documented and scientifically researched that a rapey agressive cave man go for it vibe also gets a girls engine running; she’ll get off on feeling unstoppably wanted.

So I think it’s a very tricky balance to internalize. Aloof and intimate and caveman and alpha leader and intimate partner mate provider.

At 32 one girl told me “You’re perfect, and that’s why I’m afraid of you. Normally I’m more casual, but with you I sense it would open to more, and there is no reason for it not to, and that’s why I’m afraid.”

But that’s just her girl words, it’s not the best mental map for us as men to use to describe how her emotions fit together into a cohesive narrative. For men we’re better interpreting the situation as that:

1) We haven’t given her enough pull so the she feels she has to chase, we’re too accessable and so she can’t feel that we are above her in value.

2) The tone isn’t playful enough. It’s too earnest and leaves no wiggle room to back off and claim the whole thing was just out of fun. It’s too consequence loaded.

Both 1 and 2 can be extremely subtle. With M, a girl who was a 21 year old hottie virgin, when we met we fell into a love at first sight type of dance, and I played up on that storyline with her in texts and in person. However somehow or other there were also other required undercurrents. Although I was instantly genuinely infatuated and stiff, and we played a push pull rapey couch dance of “No, stop!” (back off for 10 seconds and then grab again) “No stop!” (lean way back until she comes into my space for a kiss) and so forth, somehow or other there was still a sense of humor in it.

Jeez, how the hell am I going to hang words on this one.

In my early thirties I wanted a girlfriend, and was playful. In mid forties I wanted a girlfriend and was playful. During both periods I was prone to quick infatuations. Throughout the whole time I remained as I still remain; open to love, bonding, infatuation, and all sorts and types of intimacy dances.

But something was different.

Maybe it’s just that in the interim I’d seen more girl tricks, and been heartbroken more and broken more hearts. As time went on I was willing to love, but knew more of loves illusory nature. Yes, love is still a compulsion; no one can claim to both feel infatuation and control it. And it still wasn’t a game; real feelings have real consequences. And yet some of the earnestness got punctured with humor, and love was also a game. The real pain of consequences was also pierced with bitter-sweet humor and accepted in the way we accept death – as something unacceptable that we deal with anyway without letting it overwhelm our living life; a funny irony to beauty; that it disappears.

Something was different. I’d danced the dance more times. I’d twirled with more partners. Some of the earnestness had drained and the consequences could never be felt to me as so earnest and real as they once had.

I also learned some crucial tricks about carefully doling out intimacy. A girl has to earn it. And even here it’s so subtle, because on a first date fuck I might still scream out “Daddy loves you”. None the less, in the wider gestalt that includes all the expansion and contraction and breathing of the pushes and pulls, the overall impression is that intimacy was being slowly doled out. The dance was being done with a sense of humor. A wink and a nod to the game of seduction and passion being played.

Oh, and I’d over time gained a better sense of command. And better boundaries.

When a girl says she’s afraid, then it means you can pull and make her chase more. That can be done with a subtle vibe. Maybe a playboy vibe, maybe an aloof vibe, maybe time constraints, maybe teasing her, maybe by seeing other girls. There isn’t a one size fits all way, although some people think believe and claim that there is this magical formula called “aloof” that can be sprinkled like pixie dust onto anything. Some how or other your vibe needs to get less earnest. It might happen internally in the most subtle of ways that even you will barely be able to detect. Or it might be through crafty timings of texts and careful word choices. The girl needs see your value, in all areas, including the abilty to bond, but she also needs to feel consequence free.

It’s a one day at a time instant fling. It’s a passionate love affair. It’s not a union of lives. She can walk away or be kicked out, despite the heartbreak. You ease into things as a dance, and on the journey over time you’ll naturally pass mile stones informing the both of you of new bonds. But those milestones are not assumed from the beginning. And that’s not an action, that’s an internalized attitude. She is not allowed to jump into the deep pool of being fully bonded. She has to pass the milestones. In the meantime she gets to explore some rough and deep waters – but she can’t live there and isn’t invited to stay there all at once.

That’s my best attempt for now. Let’s see what the readers say.

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28 Responses to “Reader asks for advice on girls being afraid of intimacy”

  1. UCB said

    Interesting parallel here: A few years ago I was going through almost the exact same thing… I stumbled upon X’s blog, and he became the first anonymous blogger I’ve ever written to with a question.

    My experience mirrors Xsplat’s, but I wanted to add some other things for consideration:

    One of the most important things you can take away from what X has written here is that you can’t necessarily trust what girls say. These girls are trying to articulate a certain emotion. This is something we all struggle with; even with we’ve experienced those emotions many times before. It’s exceedingly difficult to do when we’re experiencing something that’s new and uncomfortable to us, and what’s worse, it may be impossible for us to dig deep enough to root out the source of that emotion.

    So you have to look at what these women are doing: and what they are doing is RESISTING you. Regardless of what they say, this is the only thing that matters. You have to figure out what’s causing that resistance and how to get around it.

    Some possibilities:

    – It could be that you are simply better than the girls you’re attempting to seduce. They may see you as being “out of their league” and afraid that they won’t be able to keep you around. The easiest ways of combatting this are disqualification (downplaying your positive qualities while elevating hers) and future-projecting (relating to her on qualities you find interesting in her and making future plans based around those qualities)

    – It sounds like you could be leaning too far in emotionally before you’ve given a chance for the physical side of the relationship to catch up. You gotta remember that ‘girls just wanna have fun.” Girls don’t generally like being hooked too hard emotionally. They’re afraid of exposing parts of themselves they may not necessarily want exposed and/or losing control of the pace of the relationship. You can get away with this kind of stuff once you’re in a relationship, since that’s the way things are supposed to work according to the traditional relationship model. But many girls feel out of place being too emotionally invested in a guy they’re not having sex with. Tone down the serious emotional vibe and turn up the fun sexy vibe.

    – You also have to ask yourself if there is some part of the relationship that YOU are resisting. For example, if you just want sex without the emotional connection or vice versa, girls will pick up on that. If you’re holding back emotionally in some way because of something you’re afraid of exposing to girls, they will pick up on it. Most of the more esoteric activities that seduction “gurus” prescribe (meditation, yoga, journaling, heavy lifting, etc.) are largely about identifying and overcoming this internal resistance.

    – Finally, if you’re still in any way involved in the “seduction community” now would be a great time to get out. If you’re consistently getting these types of reactions from the women you interact with, you’re well past the point where 99% of what’s out there would be in any way helpful to you, and a good bit of it would be counter-productive. You’re approaching a sort of no-man’s land where you have to start trusting your intuition more and trying to figure out how to move things forward more quickly on your own. Trusting too heavily in PUA tactics and techniques actually takes you out of the present moment with these girls and creates more of the type of resistance you’re trying to avoid.

    • xsplat said

      Well said, I was hoping someone would chime in. You did a better job than I did.

      And you brought up what sounds like “beware of habits that take you out of the flow moment”.

      Writing also can be a flow moment for some, and I think that’s why for some people writing is not a choice, but a compulsion.

      I’d like to write more about flow moments, but that’s an even more esoteric topic will be difficult to even feel my way into.

      For me sex is also always a flow moment. Music often.

      On the great BBC documentary “Child of our Times” they experiment with kids to see how many can easily get into flow moments in a set up involving music, and I think it was only something like 1 out of 7. So when I mention that a rant with a certain tone would not be written without that tone, it must be that most people will not share the experience of the flow moment of writing carrying it’s own way. Writing might be similar to letting out a musical piece. You improvise and work with it, but you are in it and FEELING it. You can’t take out the feeling and still be in it. The composition would simply stop.

      Being with girls for me is also very much continuous flow moments. And you are saying that this flow can be disrupted by getting out of the feeling, if I’m hearing you correctly.

      I’d agree and would add further notes of caution. Many individuals and groups advocate what seems to me to be to completely lose touch with feelings altogether, and to “pump and dump the bitches”. Which would not lead to any flow moments that I prefer.

  2. Intimacy said

    @ Reader’s email,

    Assuming you’re not trolling, if you are genuinely having these experiences, then congratulations—you have arrived, and it is now time for you to realize that and to accept the fruits of your labor. Most males would kill to be in your shoes.

    The comments of both X and UCB were great. Note that they were both, how should we put it, indecisive. Why? Because the place you have described is no-man’s land, the place where none of the PUA or manosphere advice applies. Why? Because this is the place where it truly comes down to what you are made of and who you are as a male. If you are hooking females this hard, the next step is to be who you truly are. There are no lines or philosophies or routines or templates or prescriptions for this place.

    I will share a bit of my own from that place, with the caveat that it is not a prescription for others, but only how I live my own life:

    I NEVER try to press a female in whom I’m interested (beyond a dump) into sex. NEVER. Instead, I continually amp up my own enjoyment of her presence in my company. (That is, after all, why I am spending my precious time with her.) I savor every sensory experience that we are sharing (taste of food, quality of air, relaxation, etc), and then I acknowledge that sharing back to her through words and tactile communication. At this point, we are both savoring the juice of life to a level that most comatose drones will never experience.

    What I have found over and over again in my own life is that after a time of savoring the experience of life with a female with no further pressure or expectations, they inevitably initiate sexual escalation. Once you have shown her a different way of living wherein she can be BOTH comfortable and sexual, they will do what they really want to do, anyway… and LOVE you for providing that space for them.

    It may not happen in 15 minutes, or 2 hours, or even on the first date. But after it does happen, the intersexual relationship is golden, and yours to develop as you wish.

    I virtually never initiate sex with a female. I take them right to the tipping point, and then patiently wait for them to resolve their own internal issues until they are ready to initiate it themselves. I do NOT push them to accelerate the resolution of their own internal issues, which runs completely counter to the whole PUA ‘push through LMR’ mantra. However, inevitably, they do. Never fails. In my younger experiences, I found that pushing them results in a 50/50 probability of outcome. Personally, I’m not fond of those odds. I defer to the 90%+ odds of allowing them to go where they want to go anyway, of their own volition. But that requires patience and inner security, which very few in the manosphere seem to possess (not a knock, just an observation). (Also, difficult to sell a book or course that says, essentially, to back off from ‘taking action.’)

    What other male will they ever experience that from? Infinitesimally few, that’s who.

    • “Assuming you’re not trolling, if you are genuinely having these experiences, then congratulations—you have arrived, and it is now time for you to realize that and to accept the fruits of your labor. Most males would kill to be in your shoes.”

      I almost wish I was trolling, but I’m not.

      “The comments of both X and UCB were great. Note that they were both, how should we put it, indecisive. Why? Because the place you have described is no-man’s land, the place where none of the PUA or manosphere advice applies. Why? Because this is the place where it truly comes down to what you are made of and who you are as a male. If you are hooking females this hard, the next step is to be who you truly are.”

      I’ve been focused on myself for many years, to the extent that I’m starting to think that, despite the connections I create so easily, I come across as unattainable to most women.

      “There are no lines or philosophies or routines or templates or prescriptions for this place.”

      I’ve never done routines or the like, and while I do accept the basic premises and concepts of game, a lot, if not most, of the specific advice available isn’t congruent with who I am.
      I will consider the things you write about your own experiences, and how they relate to my own.

      As for your second comment:
      I’m not naïve in the least about women and their machinations and tendencies, but I don’t view women as “the enemy”. I accept the brutal realities of hypergamy etc, but they can’t help that they come pre-programmed with those instincts any more than I can help that I want to stick my dick in pretty much every at least decently attractive female I see.
      I believe I do enjoy women for what they are. They’re not a panacea, but they can make life more enjoyable if they’re handled properly. I convey to them that I value them for their femininity. I convey that they don’t have to be strong when they’re with me, and that I don’t judge them for basically being confused little girls. I convey that I know the score, and that very little surprises me; that it’s okay for them to relax and drop the facade. And they do. Perhaps too readily. I think UCB has a good point about me hooking them emotionally too hard and too fast. That I need to up the fun and sexy vibe. Which is what Xsplat says as well.

      • xsplat said

        “that it’s okay for them to relax and drop the facade. And they do. ”

        Oh, I’ve learned to be careful to never play confident. Confident is a role kept for orbiters. Women are cruel and good actresses in leading on orbiters. Whenever I see myself playing any sort of friend role to a girl I try to cut it off and change the subject. I’ll often even say “I’m not a girl. Talk to your girlfriends about that”.

        It’s weird how these roles seem so segmented to women – you really do need to be quite cautious about being friendly.

        I used to think being a friend was building comfort and connection, but it backfires.

        You need to maintain a playful sexual edge, and stay out of pillow talk territory until after the sex.

        Funny I didn’t think of that before. I’ve been conscious of that dynamic for quite a while.

      • Sometimes it’s just in front of your nose… Of course I already knew that, and I have been working on it, but I obviously have some work left to do.

        OTOH, I haven’t gotten the “LBJF” rejection in years. Or actually, there was one, but it was half-hearted. I shot it down.

        Instead, girls tend to withdraw.

        Hmmm. This needs consideration.

        It’s getting obvious though, that I need to amp up the playful sexual edge. Even though I’m way way more playful and sexually edgy than Joe Average, my other traits, such as the “instant trust”-trait, might take away some from that.

      • xsplat said

        In the US I developed gaydar. In Thailand I developed tranny-dar. In Indonesia I discovered friend-dar. I get warning lights flashing in my head whenever the girl starts to talk about stuff she is only supposed to talk with other girls about, such as sex with other men, or what type of man she finds attractive. I no longer read such things as a sign of trust – I read it as a sign of lack of sexual interest. She should WANT to hide that stuff, out of her sexual self interest to fuck you. It’s instinctive to girls to hide their sexual past or any interest in competing males from a man she is serious about coming on.

        Sometimes I just change the subject but other times will push her nose into her indiscretion and say bad dog. “Talk to your girlfriends about that, not me”.

        Setting up boundaries like this is attractive, even if the boundaries are arbitrary. Just having any rules and regulations and boundaries about behaviour puts the man into a certain role – the paternal role, which IS the sexual role. I say paternal, but you can read that as dominant if you prefer.

        So I sort of legally contractualize the frame – don’t talk about stuff that sets me up as a confident and friend.

        Whenever I see the girl ever even starting to go in that direction I feel alarm buzzers.

    • UCB said

      Yeah, I never really got the impression that this was a troll email. I went through almost the exact same thing a few years back, and I’m sure many other guys have well. And trust me… it is NOT something to brag about. This was probably the second most frustrating period of my life as far as women and dating are concerned… losing out only to an earlier period where I felt like I was getting perpetually friend-zoned by girls.

      I don’t think my post was “indecisive.” Resistance is a hard thing to nail down; especially when you’re responding to someone you’ve never met over the internet. From my perspective, the solution is simple: If I started getting LMR again, I’d simply remind myself to slow down and focus on being more present with the girl; not putting my own agenda above hers. But I don’t know that that advice has any practical application for the OP. Not only that, but depending on where he is in the development process, such advice could cause more harm than good. All of this is part of the reason why we say this is an art, and not science.

  3. Intimacy said

    Another thing that is woefully lost upon the denizens of the manosphere is this: females are the biological egg-housing of our species. They are not evil monsters. Yes, they have been propagandized and culturally engineered to be little monsters, but at their genetic core, they are homo sapiens charged with the same prime directive as males—to procreate the species, and even more importantly on a sub-level, to warehouse our genetic material.

    I think it might be very helpful for many in the manosphere to keep that in mind. Females are not our enemy. If anything, they are the means through which we are able to raise others to our cause against the true enemy, which is all those who would bastardize the human race.

    How does this apply to an individual male’s efforts to establish desirable relations with the opposite sex? Well, for one, it eliminates ill will toward those who house the eggs of our future sons and daughters. A good start, that. On a more “gamey” level, it allows us to enjoy them for what they truly are, beneath the surface level propaganda and social engineering, which frees them to be what they truly are.

    This frees us to enjoy them for what they truly are—females—which is what they truly want, because it reinforces to them that they are a valued sentient being among their peers (not the same level of consciousness, mind you). Who doesn’t want to be valued by their fellow humans? We all do. Females require a “place” in the tribe in order to survive, biologically. Of course, they want the best real estate that they can muster in an open market (“hypergamy”); so do you. But this only makes them human (like you), not monsters. It is the weaponized cultural engineering that makes them monsters.

    If one approaches a relationship with the frame that the other is “the enemy,” well, that’s probably not going to end well. I’ll let you, reader, extrapolate the implications of this, and how it might practically apply to the intersexual satisfaction in your own life.

    The fact that 90% of the females want to breed with 10% of the males is harsh, but it’s just how biology set things up, for good reason, I might add. The good news for you as a male, is that you can WORK on YOU, and you CAN alter your destiny. One of the factors that sets us apart from other sentient beings on this planet. Tricks and game will only carry you so far; it’s much more decisive to ACTUALLY alter the odds into your favor, but again, that requires work.

    Peace, all.

  4. […] A reader emails: I’ve got a bit an issue that I’m hoping you could give me some input on. The subject is something you seem to be very familiar with; women and emotional intimacy.  […]

  5. […] Reader asks for advice on girls being afraid of intimacy « Random Xpat Rantings […]

  6. Intimacy said

    Friends,

    “Indecisive” was not a judgment on the comments, but merely to say that there is no decisive answer to the question put forth. My own response was indecisive in the sense that it only applied to my life, and not necessarily to the lives of others. Sorry if it came off otherwise.

    And right here, UCB nails it: “not putting my agenda above hers.” (the entire PUA/manosphere is FOUNDED upon putting the male agenda above the female agenda… and that works, up to the point where one is ready to transcend… and then it breaks down.)

    And UCB again nails it: “But I don’t know that that advice has any practical application for the OP. Not only that, but depending on where he is in the development process, such advice could cause more harm than good. All of this is part of the reason why we say this is an art, and not science.”

    Hence my use of the word “indecisive.” In retrospect, clearly a suboptimal word… UCB’s ‘art vs science’ is a better concept, and less needlessly provocative than ‘indecisive’.

    @SwedishRedPill,

    “I’ve been focused on myself for many years, to the extent that I’m starting to think that, despite the connections I create so easily, I come across as unattainable to most women.”

    This is your entire issue, right here. If you really have put in that much work on yourself, then you ARE ‘unattainable to most women,’ in a spiritual sense. This is the paradox of personal growth. As you approach the summit of Everest, how many people can you really relate to? Very few. How many of your friends/family have put in that level of work? I would venture to guess none of them.

    So you have arrived now at a place in which you are alone. The plebs in your prior life will never relate to your growth, which you are rightfully proud of, nor do they want to. They want to maximize their lives within the programming that they have been given. People like you, who have exploded out of that box, are a threat to their worldview, to everything they’ve labored for.

    Again, this is the paradox to the whole shebang. One thinks that by improving oneself, one will garner greater love from one’s peers. The opposite is true. They will shit on you because you have left the game that they are all still playing; you threaten their egoic existence.

    “I come across as unattainable to most women” – because you ARE unattainable to most women, in the spiritual sense, and they damn well know that.

    The ENTIRITY of PUA/manosphere discussion is based upon females that are little more than animals. When one reaches the place that you have reached, one desires more. The market for that “more” is TINY. The good news is that once you’re in that market, things become very easy, very direct, very fast. But it requires letting go of one’s past… which can be painful as fuck.

    “I think UCB has a good point about me hooking them emotionally too hard and too fast. That I need to up the fun and sexy vibe. Which is what Xsplat says as well.”

    Yes, X and UCB are both right. You are projecting your spiritual intensity upon an individual incapable of reciprocating that same level of spiritual intensity. Hence, the paradox. There is no answer to this, of which I am aware.

    Now we’re getting off into some very deep waters for which I have no answers. I’ll now share with you my thoughts, that are far from settled:

    At the stage of spiritual solitude where you’re at, one has two options: 1) use your advanced evolution to lord over your lessers, or 2) continue on your path by demanding that others rise to your position.

    Choosing 1) is easy. Just wield your power and have your way.

    Choosing 2) is not easy. It requires that you continue pushing your own spiritual growth and demanding that others who you allow onto your path live up to your standards. Let me tell you, that is some hard fucking shit.

    For me, personally, I have chosen 2). It has wildly exceeded my expectations. There are females out there who fit 2), but they are the less than 1%. Nonetheless, they are amazing creatures, and make this whole crazy path worthwhile, for me. I’m basically now unable to give my life’s energy to a prole for anything more than a dump, and even that is becoming tedious.

    For me, personally, I really only want to invest my time in spiritually activated beings. It definitely restricts the pool, however.

    • “And right here, UCB nails it: “not putting my agenda above hers.” (the entire PUA/manosphere is FOUNDED upon putting the male agenda above the female agenda… and that works, up to the point where one is ready to transcend… and then it breaks down.)”

      I’ve sort of realized that to some extent… It’s a really tricky balance.

      “The opposite is true. They will shit on you because you have left the game that they are all still playing; you threaten their egoic existence.”

      Yupp.

      ““I come across as unattainable to most women” – because you ARE unattainable to most women, in the spiritual sense, and they damn well know that.”

      Mhmmm. You’re probably onto something here. The girls I get involved with are so intimidated by me it’s not even funny.

      When I amp up the sexy fun vibe with a completely new girl, I get good response, but as soon as they get a whiff of the other aspects of me, they get really shy and timid.
      When alcohol comes into the picture, I’ve had such girls exhibit all manner of different extremes of behavior; everything from them becoming extremely sexually aggressive, to them having breakdowns with tears and everything.
      Once, a girl whom I had only met like a week or two earlier, called me while drunk and crying to profess her love for me and demanded to know if I loved her too. She did have a crazy streak, but her extreme reaction isn’t unique.

      “There is no answer to this, of which I am aware.”

      Uncharted territory…

      • Intimacy said

        {This post addressed generally, not specifically. (sick of having to type that disclaimer)}

        Welcome to the party.

        Okay, I suppose it is high time to put this out there. Look, after you have graduated from the juvenile universe of pua/manosphere, it is time to grow the fuck up. That means embracing manhood. That means embracing Captainhood of YOUR ship.

        Here is something that the manosphere will catch up to in 5 years:

        Females are your property, your material, your raw resources, that you use to build your empire. Period. Certainly, that is not politically correct… but pretty much every politically correct thing in your life is your enemy, an ideology seeking to break your mind and spirit and to enslave you. Not too fun, that. (And guess what, females WANT to be your property… it insures them a place in the tribe.)

        What the manosphere should REALLY be talking about, is how to engage females in the development of one’s empire, and NOT about how to get into their panties. That dipshit silliness is for losers.

        Females are fucking awesome. They are the mirror of YOU. To be angry with them is to be angry with yourself. To harbor ill feelings for them is completely illogical and nonsensical. YOU are being attacked, and the vector of that attack is females. But the females are passive conduits. It is a certain group of males who are attacking YOU via these conduits. How does this apply to males who want to get laid? Get the above through your head, that’s how.

        The whole manosphere needs to get this through its fucking head. Agitating males to be angry with females is INSANE (unless you’re trying to sell something). Females are US. They incubate our offspring for Christ’s sake. Anger should be directed at those who are intentionally fucking up our biological natural state.

        Really, the manosphere wouldn’t exist if not for the fucks attempting to bastardize our lives.

        You want to know how to get females? Throw out your television (95% of distributors owned by 5 corporations).

      • xsplat said

        “What the manosphere should REALLY be talking about, is how to engage females in the development of one’s empire,”

        Ya, the girls in my life are all co-opted in the aid of the bigger mission. And I have a new female personal assistant who is also key.

        I agree. It’s natural to induct the women as personal aids, and I can’t see working without them; they are important team members and it’s natural to delegate tasks to them.

  7. Rgoltn said

    I think it is your combination of “I’m very confident and secure in myself, but I know my shortcomings and weaknesses, and I strive to improve.” and “I am strong willed, and submission is NOT something I do. The attempts of others to control me invariably fail unless I allow them, such as in work situations. I’m not afraid of conflict. I’m also not afraid of closeness and intimacy; in fact, I relish it. I’m also comfortable with revealing my vulnerabilities. Few are the things that I fear in life.”

    This screws with their heads. Alpha string, confident types are stereo-typically unemotional. While women perceive men who can be intimate and vulnerable as weak, Beta males. You bring both, like I do in my marriage, to the table and that fu*ks with their minds. You are fully self-actualized and few ‘girls’ (and most women) do not come across many men like yourself. The world is your oyster!

  8. Intimacy said

    UCB is on fire. He has clearly put in his time and taken his lumps. You might consider what he has to say.

  9. UCB said

    Two long ass posts ahead, then I’m *probably* done for a while:

    I try to refrain from too much advice-giving, since I imagine that most of the guys who come around these parts seeking advice are introverted rational types – exactly the type of guys who need to do less thinking and more doing. But it is helpful to properly frame your thinking so that when you do have to go back and think on what action to take next, you’re doing so from the proper mindset. This discussion has opened a couple of threads that I think are worth exploring further. First, from a strategic level:

    I’ve discovered, much by accident, that one of the best things you can do for your dating life is turn down all the noise and focus on living a simple, focus, disciplined life. Turn off your TV, ignore email (as much as you get away with), disable any social media accounts, and maybe even toss your smartphone. Simplify your wardrobe and reduce your hobbies and extracurricular activities down to those that regularly show a significant return on your time invested or have the promise of doing so in the near future. This isn’t just important for your dating life, but for your long-term health as well.

    The thing I always try to stay conscious of when it comes to dating is the fact that sex is primitive. People have been having sex with each since a time before we could even talk. It’s just what we do. It shouldn’t have to be this complicated.
    The reason it is complicated now is because so much of modern life is geared towards taking us out of a flow state – out of the present moment – and keeping us distracted, lazy, and vaguely dissatisfied with our lives. Most people in the West are bored and often highly neurotic. We’re constantly bombarded with images (via advertising and social media) of people living the supposed “good life”, and as a result, our baseline happiness levels have dropped considerably over the past few decades. Too much of our residual energy is devoted to increasing our social status instead of taking care of ourselves and our families. The constant distraction and status-striving associated with modern living creates a barrier between our “true self” and the “false self” we present to the rest of the world.*

    So what’s happening when you’re creating these deep emotional bonds with these girls is that you’re reaching through all of that noise and having a conversation with her true self. That is a gift. I don’t want you to get the impression that there’s something wrong with what you’re doing. As we’ve all stated here, it’s how men are supposed to relate to women. The problem is that too many modern women are disassociated from their true selves. For them, sex is a very shallow “false self” experience – at least until they’ve been exposed to a more meaningful experience of sex with a skilled lover.

    When you try and bridge the gap between the two selves too quickly, you get a state crash – and start experiencing all of the crazy weird behavior you’ve described in your emails and comments. These girls almost certainly want to have sex with you; and they are likely very deeply invested in you emotionally as well. But those are two very different sides of their personalities, and they’ve likely never had to worry about integrating the two outside of a traditional relationship.

    So there are a few basic strategies for dealing with this true self/false self dichotomy. The first way is to ignore this dichotomy altogether and focus exclusively on false self attraction. There’s nothing wrong with this strategy if that’s the way you want to go; but I assume if that’s the case then you wouldn’t be here. The guys over a GLL would probably be a much better resource in this area.

    A second option is to keep doing what you’re doing but seek out girls who are more fully integrated. Nothing wrong with this strategy either – just be prepared to face a lot more rejections and weird freak-outs along the way. Also, be aware that it’s extremely unlikely that you’ll find a girl who’s both fully integrated and still in her sexual prime. Most people don’t even begin this process of integration until their early to mid-30s or so.

    A third (and my recommended way) of dealing with this dichotomy is to recognize and accept that most women are broken in this way, and that it’s part of your responsibility as a seduction artist to help them bridge the gap between these two selves.
    That’s the next big challenge for you, and it’s never-ending.

    *************************************************************************************
    *I should add here that the terms “true self” and “false self” come from Richard Rohr’s work (look him up). It’s a spiritual work, strangely enough, that finally helped things click for me when it came to women and where I kept going wrong with them. Highly recommended his lecture series, but for the purposes of this discussion you can just consider the false self to be the external, status-seeking, more narcissistic side of our personalities while the true self represents our internal psychological and emotional world.
    *************************************************************************************

    • Intimacy said

      Holy shit. Not trying to awkwardly approach UCB, but going to say something nonetheless. These posts by UCB are seminal. Wow. Where else are you going to read this level of wisdom? This UCB motherfucker is one sharp fellow. Kudos. I’m listening, yo.

  10. UCB said

    Tactically speaking, bridging these two worlds is actually very easy. The challenge comes from the fact that it is never-ending. You never truly get to take a break with any woman worth having. You must always be on your game in some way or another.

    Whenever I’m meeting with a girl that I haven’t seen in a while – whether it’s some girl I’m dating for the first time, or a girl that I’ve been seeing for many months – I always go through the same process. I assume that her exposure to the rest of the world has thrown her off-balance in some way, and that it’s my job to bring her back to center.

    The process is pretty straightforward. Whenever we first meet, I give myself ten to minutes to blow off any remaining steam from the day’s events. Once I’ve blown off steam, I try to put my mind at ease to make room for the relationship gears to start turning. If I’m feeling generous I’ll give her ten to fifteen minutes to do the same, though I normally cut her off sometime before that (you’ll understand why in a minute). Whenever, I’m ready to move on to the next stage, I usually just walk up to her, grab her, and indicate that it’s time to move on to the next stage. It’s our time now.

    At this point, we’re synced up and in relationship mode. I don’t have any real thoughts or agendas. It’s kind of hard to describe really. My mind is mostly blank, but there are always three major programs running in the background: Focus, Compliance, and Tension. Focus just means that the conversation and energy is directed towards us. I don’t talk shop, religion, or politics. I don’t let her talk about silly girl stuff. It’s the whole “friend-dar” thing that Xsplat referred to earlier. 90 – 95% of what girls think and say will have no impact on your life or relationship. The trick is to keep them talking about the relationship when things are going well, and to let them talk about the other nonsense when they aren’t.

    Compliance is just what it sounds like. Establishing and maintaining boundaries. Escalating the interaction to see how willing she is to follow me. Etc. For example, one thing I like to do when out on a date is to ask the girl for her hand at some point. “Give me your hand.” If she questions why, I tell her, “I just wanted to see how you respond to my touch.” If a girl’s willing to hold on to my hand or rest it on my leg for an extended period of time, I know she’s willing to go back to my place. If she’s willing to go back to my place, then she’s willing to make out with me. If she’s willing to do that, well then you know the rest of the drill. I don’t need to waste any more time drawing out the date longer than is necessary. By the same token, I don’t need to rush things either. No public make-outs or anything like that. Sex is just one of those things that’s always lurking in the background. We don’t really have to call a whole lot of attention to it.

    Tension is just sexual tension. It’s what keeps me out of the friend-zone in new relationships and the cuckold-zone in established ones. There are a million different strategies for keeping up sexual tension, so I won’t go into them here. 60 Years of Challenge has done some excellent work in this area, and Xsplat’s advice of only fucking girls you’re sincerely interested in might be the best advice out there (strange how so many guys forget that…). One thing about sexual tension: I always verbally escalate well beyond where I am both physically and emotionally in the relationship at that point. Lately I’ve been joking a lot about the dozens of kids we’re gonna have together and how hard it’s gonna be to keep our sex lives out of view of so many prying eyes. Something silly like that. The trick is to just drop it in there, talk about for just a few minutes, then move on to the next thing. If you’re in tune with each other, her subconscious mind will continue to do much of the work for you.

    So anyway, I’m basically running this same routine, all day every day, with every girl I have some sort of intimate relationship with. Focus, compliance, tension, focus, compliance, tension. Escalate things a little bit each cycle. Remember to have fun with it. That sort of thing.

    I don’t even think about it anymore; it just happens automatically. And if it doesn’t happen, that’s a clue to me that something is seriously off. I usually make a couple of attempts to right the ship, often just by asking her directly what’s going on and letting her know that I can tell that something is off. If she doesn’t come forward, that usually means she’s hiding something or considering other options (or that she’s just not that into me or vice versa if it’s our first time hanging out). If I can’t figure out what’s going on, and she won’t tell me, then it’s usually a sign that it’s time for me to start executing my exit strategy. My trump card is that I’m always willing to walk away if I’m not getting what I want out of a relationship. There are just too many other women in this world for me to sit around putting up with endless drama. I make sure that my girls know this upfront so that there’s very little drama.

    So how this ties back into the true self/false self thing: most girls are walking around with their heads in the clouds. Not to say that they can’t themselves be smart, disciplined, and focused… They most certainly can be. But as a rule, I find women to be quite a bit more scatterbrained and concerned with the ways of the world (especially on the very local level) than men are. This focus, compliance, tension cycle helps keep me on track internally, which in turn helps me draw them out of their own bullshit and back into my world. It takes some degree of discipline at first – hence my earlier comment about learning to slow things down and remain present — but after a while it becomes second-nature.

    Anyway, I know this was a bit wordy. But after the discussion started taking off, I spent a lot of time thinking “Yeah, this is all very interesting to talk about in our usual high-minded, intellectual sort of way… but what does it actually look like in real life?” This is the best that I can come up with for now. Hope it helps.

  11. Intimacy said

    Gentlemen,

    As I am reading UCB’s posts, I am grinning ear to ear. Here is a dude who has arrived, for real. Listen to what he has to say. And @UCB, you make me feel that I am not alone. Thanks for that.

    Okay, just finished reading his comments. UCB is putting on a clinic for you guys. Savor it. His comments are DENSE, meaning that every sentence carries value.

    ““Yeah, this is all very interesting to talk about in our usual high-minded, intellectual sort of way… but what does it actually look like in real life?” This is the best that I can come up with for now. Hope it helps.”

    Yep, real talk is more rare and precious than gems or precious metals. Interesting that it tends to transpire on X’s site.

    Best to you all, peace.

  12. xsplat said

    There is an odd advantage to dating ditzes and stupid chicks. Because you are forced to connect in ways that are more primitive.

    People can form loving bonds with dogs.

    And yet people think that it’s impossible to form the same meaningful relationships with uncomplicated ditzes.

    We can connect to un-evolved women meaningfully. It’s a matter of finding that connection, and then expanding it. I like to do it with voice intonation, pantomime, touch, and sex.

    N18 is a very different person than was N17. Now when we fuck she’s a woman and opens in emotion and passion far more widely. Fucking does not require high conceptual development, but still is spiritual in that people connect their subjective awarenesses into a mutuality that plays off each mutual moment in sublime jazz.

    So that’s how I solve my spritual growth needs with women. I just ignore them altogether. I do my own thing, and connect with women to the depth that they can. The women naturally will open more, over time. And if they are useless for conversation then I don’t let them talk much.

    Of course everything I’m doing with my life is so that I can upgrade to better women. But in the meantime I love my dogs. They are good bitches.

    With my bitches we quickly and easily get into intimate and undistracted spaces where we are intensely into each other. There are no complications. It’s now moments after now moments.

    • UCB said

      Love this response.

      My current girlfriend is probably the least complicated girl I’ve ever dated. Also probably the most fun. The only time we ever get bogged down in heavy conversation is when it’s something that directly affects our relationship. Otherwise things are usually just light, fun, and sexy.

      In a way I think it gives the heavy conversations more impact. The gf knows that if my mood has turned, then it’s a BIG deal. Instead of the long draw-out battles I used to have in my 20s and early 30s, these days even the most serious problems are identified, discussed, and resolved in under an hour so that we can both get back to doing what we most want to do: have more fun, intimate moments together.

      There is much to be learned here. I wish I’d have had this kind of guidance when I was coming up.

      • xsplat said

        Ya, I’ve even gone so far as to make a “no relationship talk” rule.

        I now consider such conversations to be indulgences. Time sucks. And I don’t see that they serve any purpose.

        “Don’t talk about relationship, have one.” “As long as we are happy together, that’s all that matters.” “If you are not happy, then I’ll understand if you leave”.

        I keep it that simple.

        It took me a long time to discover that I really don’t like all that emotional processing stuff. I used to think I was good at it and could get into it. But now I just say fuck it. That’s not what I’m here for.

        Girls always have times of being insecure and wanting re-assurance. But there is none to give. Words don’t in real life actually help. They are just a time suck and an energy drain. And now I think that’s actually their main purpose – to drag the man into lowered testosterone and energy levels and suck up all his emotional energy.

        I just boycott the whole thing, as much as possible.

        It doesn’t take the girls long to get used to that way of “dealing” with their relationship anxieties. They innately get it. They get it that I’ve seen through their ploy to gain hand by droning on about “the relationship”. I remove that hand from them, and it becomes take it or leave it. Relationship talk is usually just a subtle form of purposeless nagging that goes nowhere.

        I used to be innately sensitive, and my old self would consider it brutish to ignore a girls relationship talk needs. That’s been a big change. Now I don’t think that they really even have those needs. They can actually handle living with a guy who retains hand and doesn’t get sucked into her monogamy vortex of emotional drama. They just will do everything in their power to avoid it – they want to tame the man. But it’s not necessarily in their best interest anyway, and it’s certainly not in mine. Give em an inch and they’ll just take more and more inches anyway. By never going there, they have to sort it out themselves, and they can’t try to drag me down just for a little emotional comfort.

        Oh, and I also don’t let girls throw “tampo” silent moods at me.

        I remove all those girl game tricks from the equation. It gets stripped down to the most bare bones. Take it or leave. If you are not happy, then leave.

        They discover that they are happy. It’s much easier to discover that if forced to shut the fuck up and make a choice.

        Relationship talk is just disguised power struggle. A struggle the girl always wins, because of stamina. It’s a form of punishment for causing anxiety, and a form of training to keep the man complient to her emotional “needs”. They aren’t actually needs. They are just a ploy and strategy.

        Recently I tore into N18 when she tried to suck me in to her poor me my boyfriend cheats narrative. I just contrasted her life before and after meeting me, and told her that everyone has these same relationship dramas and that she’s no special victim snowflake, and showed her that she has a fucking excellent life now, and to take it or leave it. It took her until the next day to bring it up again and all she said with a smile was “Ya, you’re right. My life is great now. I’m really happy.”

      • Bugsack said

        That “no relationship-talk” rule is a good one – I’m going to try that out in future.

        I’ve long held that love is deeds, not words. So, does the ‘panel’ think there’s a place for romantic gestures in MLTRs? If a girl feels loves because of what you do, then is she going to tone down the let’s-talk-about-you-fucking-that-other-girl demands? Or does romance equal loss of hand? Seems it would be tricky to get the balance right, and might open one up to questions of the “Do you do that for her too?” kind.

  13. Intimacy said

    Haha! I laughed repeatedly reading this comment. Good stuff!

    Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy the conversations on this site when they dive sub-surface. I learn quite a bit from the participants.

  14. AKA said

    @Xsplat “”Relationship talk is just disguised power struggle. A struggle the girl always wins, because of stamina. It’s a form of punishment for causing anxiety, and a form of training to keep the man complient to her emotional “needs”. They aren’t actually needs. They are just a ploy and strategy.””

    This is just phenomenal insight. The whole comment thread. Lots of wisdom.

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